[zepto]

> Superior in what way?

When it comes to programming, almost every way. Try getting a job if you only know how to program a TI-84. Now compare that with knowing python or JavaScript.

> It’s far easier to write a minimal program on a TI calculator like the TI89.

Yes, and far harder to write anything but a minimal program. Completely impossible to write anything in a commercially used language.

> No App Store account or Internet required.

So what? These are widely available.

> It’s included in every calculator for free, with function integration into the hard (ie easier to be precise while typing) keyboard.

So what? You can’t write anything resembling a modern program. This is a way in which the calculator is incapable of serving as a general purpose computer, not an advantage.

I’m not against calculators. I learned to program on my father’s TI, long before I had access to computers. I still like keystroke programming an HP-15C for repetitive calculations today. But there is no way that is better than Pythonista or the ilk for programming in general.

[cxr]

> Completely impossible to write anything in a commercially used language.

You're approaching this as if the comment was an opinion about the feasibility of doing commercial software development instead of what it was, which is a statement about HCI and the "implicit step zero" of software creation on today's commodity computing devices. Another way to put it is that this is a discussion about friction, and the original comment was specifically an observation about static friction, and you're talking about kinetic friction—while also insisting that the original comment is wrong because you want the subject to be the latter and not the former. It's a weird, overly hostile, and uncharitable way to interpret the other person's words.

The original comment as it stands is fine. Don't expect to be able to interpret it on different terms than the way it was meant to be understood.

[zepto]

The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.”

And: “It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone.”

> The original comment as it stands is fine. Don't expect to be able to interpret it on different terms than the way it was meant to be understood.

The comment is complete bullshit in this context.

> instead of what it was, which is a statement about HCI and the "implicit step zero" of software creation on today's commodity computing devices.

This is simply not true. The comment was a response to a thread. You have made up a context in which it makes sense out of whole cloth.

You can see the comment wasn’t meant in this narrow context because the poster defended it by saying ‘superior in what way?’, rather than by clarifying the context in which it might be valid.

I miss the days when there was an instant on programmable device. We need that again. It would be great if iPhones shipped with Swift playgrounds as a pre-installed app for example.

Swift playgrounds shipping on iPhone sounds a lot like the “I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation.”

So does Pythonista.

But a ti-84 is not easier to program than an iPhone, except for in the trivial sense that you can skip a few taps needed to install a programming app. Other than that, the ti is strictly worse.

I agree calculators are a good way to learn a limited form of programming, however Apps definitely better. If you want to quibble over the ease of installing an app vs purchasing a calculator, that’s a sideshow to the value of learning python vs ti-84 programming.

The irony is that the biggest obstacle to the iPhone being easy to program is people saying it’s hard to program rather than saying ‘use Pythonista’ or the like.

[cxr]

> The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.”

It's not. You are ignoring the place in the thread where the comment appears.

No one has argued that learning TI Basic is more worthwhile than learning HTML, JS, and CSS (or Python) on a mobile phone. No one has argued for advising someone that they should be "getting a job if you only know how to program a TI-84". The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone.

> made up a context in which it makes sense out of whole cloth

Wrong, and posting another comment trying to argue your uncharitable take won't make it correct or reasonable. Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else. This is stupid.

[zepto]

> The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone.

That just isn’t the claim made. Again you just have just made something up.

Let’s copy and paste the claim and take a look:

“I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation.

It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone. Why can’t this be better?”

It turns out that it isn’t what you said it was.

As for picking a fight, you seem to be the only one doing that here.

You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context.

Prior to that we were discussing the merits of calculators and phones for programming.

You might not like the content, but there were no personal attacks before you brought them here.

[cxr]

This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is?

> I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation.

Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program".

> You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context.

The lack of self-awareness here is staggering.

(What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it?)

[zepto]

> This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is?

Nobody is talking about hello world programs except you. That’s the point.

> Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program".

‘to write a minimal program’ was added in a later comment from the claim in response to my point about the iPhone being superior, as perhaps the one example of why the TI might be easier to program.

It doesn’t define the issue - it’s just one thing that the commenter was trying to argue was better about the TI.

I don’t even think it’s true. Firing up Pythonista and writing hello world is very straightforward. Doing the same on a TI-89 is not actually simpler. The process is in fact very similar.

> What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it?

“…trying to argue your uncharitable take….”

“…Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else…”

“…This is stupid…”

“…The lack of self-awareness here is staggering…”