[lazide]

The brain as an organ analogy doesn't also reflect the self-reflective, self-influencing, learning side of it well.

A kidney doesn't remember the last time someone abused it and react reflexively when they see that person. It also doesn't tend to go into tight loops of racing thoughts about that person randomly either.

If you treat it like it is a simple organ (x thing happens, give drug y), it can lead to some really toxic long term effects with avoidance of environmental or self regulatory issues, lack of awareness of what is going on and how to correct it, etc. I've seen it personally, and lost friends and loved ones to the effects a naive 'medical' approach can have.

The reality, near as we can tell, is the brain is an organ, that in ways we don't understand is also part of what we call 'self', which is also part of the system of our body, which is also part of larger systems that we interact with and influence us.

I don't know of any monks that, if you broke a leg, would say 'Meditate and your leg will be healed'. Most monks, if you had not yet gone to a Doctor to have it fixed, would ask you something along the lines of 'How can I help you?' to help you see the need and get you there, or ask you to sit with them so you could see the need yourself.

[crazydoggers]

> The brain as an organ analogy doesn't also reflect the self-reflective, self-influencing, learning side of it well.

Except it’s not an analogy… it’s literally an organ.

Software happens to run on top of it… and when there are bugs in on, we call those functional diseases. But understand that the physical organ and system underlies all if it.

If your cpu or memory are broken.. no software or software fixes can fix that.

And I’m not suggesting that the complexity of the neural network isn’t important to mental health. It is. But it’s based in physical and chemical processes.

Your immune system for instance is a complex system with emergent properties. You could say it “understands” or is aware when the body is being attacked. But at each individual level, it’s a process of chemical physical reactions.

It’s fine to work at the level of the “self”, but if we assume it stands apart or is fundamentally different than the brain itself, that’s when we get into trouble.

Buddhist philosophy can encapsulate accumulated folk knowledge of how the mind works, which can be incredibly insightful. However there’s danger in assuming it explains everything.

[lazide]

It’s truly a singularly unique and poorly understood organ which also is the only known organ trying to understand itself - which is my point. Saying ‘it’s just an organ’ dismisses and minimizes all the important parts.

And the brain, just like many processors CAN and does work around damaged memory, and can and does work around damaged processors/bugs (depending on the nature and severity of them of course). Phineas Gage being one of the clearest recent examples, but there are many more.

Minimizing what is going on to saying ‘it’s all chemical processes’ is really missing the point - it would be like saying a modern CPU is ‘just moving electrons around’. It’s reductio ad absurdum.

I haven’t personally run across a Buddhist philosophy claiming knowledge of the way the brain works. I have run across Buddhist philosophy claiming to know how the universe works, which seemed pretty silly to me. I’ve also run across Buddhist philosophy aiming to provide tools to help people better understand and connect with it and themselves better, which I personally have found helpful.

[crazydoggers]

I pretty much agree with all of this. Buddhism like most things isn’t easily defined as a single set of beliefs for everyone. Lots of Buddhist partake in scientific research in the functioning of the brain. Others, some like the meditation retreat types, focus on pseudoscience and mythology to sell tickets.

Phineas Gage as well as the practice of labotomy definitely shows that the hardware is extremely important. Phineas as well as most lobotomy victims spent the rest of their life as fundamentally different people with enormously different personalities after the damage to their brain. Phineas became extremely volatile and had problems with executive functioning.

> that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining 12 years of his life — effects sufficiently profound that friends saw him (for a time at least) as "no longer Gage" — from Wikipedia

However your point about healing is well taken. Howard Dully who had a lobotomy performed at the age of 12 has managed to recover to a significant degree as his brain has “re-wired” around the damaged areas. It’s believed his young age allowed for the significant recovery.

All that said, my main point which I feel like you’d agree with is that even if the software and hardware of the mind works around and heals itself, it’s not a metaphysical or supernatural process. Understanding the underlying hardware and chemical process, as well as the emergent processes that allows that healing and work-arounds ultimately leads to greater understanding.