[anyfoo]

> Wrong. The South Bay has Caltrain, the East Bay has BART. SF has... a few systems, but mostly Muni.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that you have never lived for a significant time in a major (or even smaller) European or Asian city? Where I come from, pretty much everyone, everyone, uses public transport all the time. To go to work, to go to any leisure activity, to do some quick shopping. And it's extremely clean, modern, and convenient (yeah, people complain, they do all the time, but they complain that it's 10 minutes late in the deepest winter and then still use it daily).

That's just not feasible in the Bay Area. You are screwed here if you don't have a car, where as when I lived as a fully grown adult in Europe, I and many of my peers did not even have a driver's license (getting one is expensive, time intensive, and usually plain not necessary). Many others had a driver's license but no car. Now I need a car just to go to the supermarket because there isn't any in a walkable distance.

I have to say the subway system in Manhattan is indeed the closest I've seen compared to the European or Asian systems I'm familiar with, even though it still looks pretty "industrial" and somewhat run down.

[foolfoolz]

this isn’t true at all. “everyone” isn’t actually everyone. and it isn’t always “clean and convenient”

all you’re measuring is living closer to a city center. and the larger the city the better the story. if you live in the burbs in either location you get a suburb experience

[nostrademons]

There is a dramatic difference between most European & Asian public transport systems and most non-NYC American public transport systems, though.

Once I stayed with my in-laws in Sanxia Taiwan, an exurb of Taipei. When we wanted to get to Taipei 101 (37km away), we took public transit. When we wanted to get to the historic district (26 km away), we took public transit. When we wanted to get to Tamsui (a bucolic oceanfront suburb, 42km away), we took public transit. When we wanted to get to Banqiao (the main shopping district, 16km away), we took public transit.

From the mid-peninsula, this is equivalent to going to San Francisco; going to downtown San Jose; going to Half Moon Bay; and going to Stanford Shopping Center. You can actually get to the first two through Caltrain, but you'll walk about a mile to get to the Caltrain station, rather than half a block to get to a bus that comes every 10 minutes. You can't effectively get to HMB, Stanford Shopping Center, or any of the other non-city-center through public transit in the Bay Area.

That's what foreigners tend to complain about with the walkability of American cities. It isn't the difficulty of getting from dense, built-up city centers to top tourist destinations. It's the difficulty of getting from common, ordinary residences to the next tier of destinations.

[foolfoolz]

there’s actually bus lines that take you to all the places you listed in the bay area

[naturalauction]

I don’t know how much you have taken the bus but it is truly abysmal in the Bay Area. Not to mention the VTA is cutting a bunch of stops due to low ridership (it’s a chicken and egg problem). Additionally, the buses are slow and rarely go where you want to go.

I just looked on Google Maps. Assuming that I can only walk and take public transport getting to Stanford Shopping Center from where I grew up takes 5x longer than driving, Half-Moon Bay 4x longer. For contrast getting to London from any surrounding area and vice versa is generally faster by public transport when compared to driving (even when that trip involves buses).

It simply isn’t comparable. The infrastructure might exist in theory, but it is not very usable.

[anyfoo]

Does not match my experience of both living and traveling in multiple places. Compared to the Bay Area, I know public transport from for example multiple German and French cities plus Prague (places where I lived), or Tokyo and Hong Kong (places where I traveled), and a few others, as clean and convenient, and the "suburb" experience being much different as well.

[colin_mccabe]

If you compare the Bay Area to most of the US, it has significantly better public transportation. That was the point I was making in my comment.

[bsder]

> And it's extremely clean, modern, and convenient

For every St Pancras there are lots more Gare du Nord.

Convenient, yes. Modern--sometimes. Clean--occasionally.