[LimaBearz]

It’s also important to understand that the only reason anyone is talking about misinformation right now is because the entire world watched in horror at the events of January 6th, a direct attempt to “seize control over free societies”. (Admittedly a poor attempt at it though) which was sparked by wild accusations, unsubstantiated assertions, and a mountain of failed litigation by “the previous guy”.

No amount of whitewashing or misdirection of what happened that day or the factors that lead up to it will change that certain “free speech” said by the right mouth, believed by an angry undereducated group can lead to actual loss of our free society. Just look at the insane amount of legislation being passed in certain red states, all based and cheered on by the exact same lie..

We can all argue the merits of google, but that’s just a method to control the conversation by those who seek our society for there own dystopian Handmaids Tale version, and deflection from what put us in this sitaution. A lie, perpetrated by the president, enabled by his supporters, and a Ministry of Truth style belief in what that government said, that’s leading to voter disenfranchisement and loss of faith in the very foundation of democracy. Period.

As for the medical information that I disagree with. If people want to believe in lies, I have enough “don’t tread on me” to let them. Personally that’s very much a game of “play stupid games win stupid prices”. None of my business have at it

[narrator]

You are saying that this is a lie as if that's math or physics instead of a debatable political point and then circling all the wagons around that determination.

The idea that the coronavirus came from a lab used to be one of those circle the wagons points that anyone could get cancelled for. The evidence is so overwhelming that you're now allowed to post that to social media without getting cancelled. How would that information have gotten out there if the cancel network had been perfect?

[bigbluedots]

Where is all this overwhelming evidence that the virus came from a lab?

[tstrimple]

They can’t share it because they don’t have it. One scientist said it looked like it came from a lab and all the reactionaries latched onto this one statement as if it was the real truth being hidden from them. They promptly ignored when that same scientist admitted he overstated his position because that conflicts with their world view and censorship and persecution complex.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/scientist-...

[LimaBearz]

My original post said absolutely nothing about the rona though yes it a physics or math problem. I’ve since amended it

Trump lied, period. And it lead to and is leading to a lot of negatives.

As for the virus personally I don’t care where it came from but people can believe whatever they want. We have a vaccine now, don’t want it then don’t, doesn’t affect those that chose to. “The big lie” however affects us all, and that’s a problem.

In the case of covid the math changes. Generally speaking if it affects only you, have at it. If it spills out and affects others, problem. Though I’m not gonna argue the pedantry of that, that can devolve quickly

[narrator]

I have never heard any "truth" so sacred in American politics that the other side had to simply refer to the people opposing this "truth" as believing in "the big lie." It's Poe's law level absurdity.

[devwastaken]

Trumpers I know tell me liberals are all in on a big conspiracy lie to prop up Biden, so, I certainly have seen it on the other side.

It's not unsurprising, this is a two sided political party war on information. One side is misinformed, one side is less misinformed. Which is it? Nobody can agree.

[dtech]

Just because someone shouted an idea without proof that later might turn out to be partially right doesn't make it OK if shouting that idea was dangerous.

If I shout fire in the cinema and 1 minute later a fire starts it was still a bad thing to do.

Note too that for this specific conspirancy, it was maybe 30% about the lab and 70% about the Chinese government spreading it on purpose as a bioweapon or for some other nefarious purpose, the latter of which is still not widely accepted even as a possibility (as opposed to a containment failure)

[PixyMisa]

This is in itself misinformation.

[neonate]

> the only reason anyone is talking about misinformation right now is because the entire world watched in horror at the events of January 6th

Just as a point of fact, that's false. Usage spiked in late 2019. Nothing special happens on this graph in Jan 2021, and the term is surprisingly in decline right now:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=m...

Same with "disinformation":

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=d...

[lenkite]

I saw a low-level riot with a few broken windows that was endlessly hyped over and over again ad-nauseam. So, no, the rest of the world wasn't horrified - we were wondering what was the fuss.

I was far more worried about the BLM riots which burned entire districts - since I had family affected.

Using Jan 6th as an excuse for government censorship is utter nonsense. What is misleading today can become fact tomorrow very, very quickly.

[tstrimple]

why are you lying about entire districts being burned down by BLM? Surely you can provide some actual evidence as to this happening. Right now is just looks like more completely unsupported right wing hysteria.

[lenkite]

This is laughable. There were hundreds of buildings burnt down and you ask for evidence ? Please do your own research. I strongly suggest listening to some-thing other than cnn/nbc. I don't listen to either right-wing or left-wing media.

"In their wake, vandals left a trail of smashed doors and windows, covered hundreds of boarded-up businesses with graffiti and set fire to nearly 150 buildings, with dozens burned to the ground. Pharmacies, groceries, liquor stores, tobacco shops and cell phone stores were ransacked, losing thousands of dollars in stolen merchandise. Many were looted repeatedly over consecutive nights"

"Three hundred seventy-some miles south-east of Minneapolis and about sixty miles north of Chicago on Lake Michigan in Kenosha, the family-run car dealership of an Indian immigrant was burned down by the rioters. The owner, trying to hold back his tear, told reporters that BLM rioters burned his lot two nights in a row destroying all the cars"

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/indic-positive/may... https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-buildings-ar...

[allarm]

> the entire world watched in horror at the events of January 6th

Umm, no. I’d rather say it was a mildly interesting event for the entire world outside of the US. For instance, I don’t remember myself experiencing horror really.

[mdoms]

If anything it was funny to me and my friends and colleagues.

[machinehermiter]

I was pretty horrified by it and the way Pence and Romney have been treated is just foolish by conservatives.

I think a better example though is Flat Earth ideas.

Suppressing people from communicating that the Earth is flat is far more dangerous than the idea that the Earth is flat.

All the West really has going for it is that we are able to entertain ridiculous ideas. This is what lets our creativity percolate on the network.

Once that is gone we have nothing. Just a small % of the global population, kind of lazy, kind of entitled.

[junon]

This implies that being misled due to being under-educated on a topic is a choice. Otherwise, the "don't tread on me" argument kind of falls apart here.

[6f8986c3]

No, the world watched in horror as American cities burned for an entire year while politicians and media whores, thoroughly protected by police and private security, did nothing.

Police were ordered to take a knee to the mob.

We were told that this was justice.

But the second those powerful people were even slightly threatened, the gloves came off.

Only one person was murdered on the 6th. A veteran and Trump voter named Ashli Babbitt, killed by the police. And Democrats celebrated her death.

[Nursie]

She was trying to force her way into a chamber where she and the rest of the mob intended to do harm to elected politicians, and disrupt US democratic process.

That’s not really murder. And no, the rest of the world did not look on in horror at the BLM protests. They looked in horror at what caused them.

[lelanthran]

> And no, the rest of the world did not look on in horror at the BLM protests. They looked in horror at what caused them.

Speak for yourself - I am part of the world that looked on in horror at the media's sanction of open violence against the people by a violent minority.

[cotelletta]

Speak for yourself. The rest of the world mostly did not look, because the American media refused to objectively cover those protests.

I only know about it but following local independent outlets in Portland.

[lenkite]

Speak for yourself. You didn't have family threatened by the BLM riots, nor property damage - all egged on by both the media and the left.

[tstrimple]

Why are you spreading more lies? You are explicitly part of the problem. What cities were burnt down? Can you name one city that was burnt? Can you name even one neighborhood?

[l33t2328]

> the only reason anyone is talking about misinformation right now is because the entire world watched in horror at the events of January 6th, a direct attempt to “seize control over free societies”

Regardless of if the riot on Jan 6 was an attempt to seize the government (it wasn’t), this line of reasoning doesn’t track at all since the concept of “misinformation” as a public enemy has been brought up ad naseum since at least 2016.

[LimaBearz]

There’s a bit of nuance there though to isn’t there?

Let’s be honest, “misinformation” between 2016-2020 just meant “things written about me I don’t like”, it only came from one person/group.

[l33t2328]

> it only came from one person/group

I disagree. While dubbing things “misinformation” was extremely prevalent coming from democrats and those on the left, things like Trump and his supporters dubbing certain reports “fake news” show everyone has concerns.

[6f8986c3]

The term “fake news“ itself came from the left.

[amaranth]

That was about actual fake news, not news with a spin I don't like.

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/

[l33t2328]

Right, misinformation. Reasonable people can disagree about where the line between “actual fake news” and “news with a spin I don’t like” is.

[ibbibby]

Where have you been? Hall monitors at CNN and other outletd like Oliver Darcy have been shrieking about "misinformation," and successfully lobbying to get people censored on that basis, constantly for the last four years.

Recall that the "fake news" scare (and "post-truth era" etc) was actually started by the media before Trump appropriated it against them. And in most cases it was used against people for expressing skeptic towards favored conspiracy theories about the 2016 election.

[inglor_cz]

" the entire world watched in horror at the events of January 6th, a direct attempt to “seize control over free societies”. (Admittedly a poor attempt at it though)"

Ask the rest of the world before you speak in their name. From the other side of the puddle, Jan 6th was a poorly executed riot that was mildly interesting mainly because of the obvious kooks (such as the Shaman) and their outlandish clothing. Don't try to repaint it as a surrogate coup just because polarized American society yearns for Big Defining Events. There is nothing to yearn for. And historical coups, even the unsuccessful-but-plausible ones look very, very different. Usually a lot more bloody, too.

But as far as Ministry of Truth goes, I am with you. Whatever institutions people build, they should imagine them in hands of their worst enemies.