[war1025]

> the choice to not have children meant giving up much of heterosexual sex.

A bit personal maybe, but my wife has never been on birth control, we don't use protection, and have never had an "oops" baby. We had kids when we wanted kids, and haven't had kids when we didn't want kids.

It's really just... not that hard...

[kerkeslager]

That's great for you, but as a societal discussion, that's about as useful as a story of how someone prayed and their mom's cancer went away.

You're taking a risk, in the context of a committed relationship where you've already had kids (so the stakes are lower than for a lot of people). So far that risk has worked out for you. That doesn't mean that is the right risk for everyone. It also doesn't mean that what you're doing is reliable for everyone. And it certainly doesn't mean that you're somehow more intelligent or competent than the people for whom similar methods of family planning have failed.

[war1025]

> it certainly doesn't mean that you're somehow more intelligent or competent than the people for whom similar methods of family planning have failed.

I personally think it is a sign of modern hubris to assume that effective family planning didn't exist prior to 1960s and the advent of birth control.

All forms of family planning can fail. I don't think that's contentious.

Personally, the bigger issue I see among my peers is inability to conceive at all. They squandered their fertile years and are now going to enormous expense to start a family.

[kerkeslager]

> I personally think it is a sign of modern hubris to assume that effective family planning didn't exist prior to 1960s and the advent of birth control.

Effective toward what end?

Having kids when and only when you want them? Sure. "Only have sex when you want a kid" has always been an option.

Having kids when and only when you want them, and fulfilling your biological urges? Not so much.

I'm glad for you that your family planning worked for you and fulfilled your needs, but if you're going to extrapolate your experience to literally all humans throughout history, you aren't really in a position to be talking about other people's hubris.

[war1025]

> Having kids when and only when you want them? Sure. "Only have sex when you want a kid" has always been an option.

> Having kids when and only when you want them, and fulfilling your biological urges? Not so much.

Unsure if you're being obstinate or ignorant, but we've been married a decade and I assure you we have had sex several orders of magnitude more than the three times we conceived.

Baby = Egg + sperm. Keep those two apart and no baby. Not exactly rocket science.

[kerkeslager]

Of course, I assumed that you had sex many times more than you conceived. Keep in mind, I wasn't the other person who commented.

If pulling out, having sex while not ovulating, or whatever you did, is satisfying for you, great! I applaud your satisfaction.

However, as I said not everyone is satisfied by that kind of sex. To say that the limitations imposed by a lack of birth control don't exist, or aren't important, fails to capture the depth, breadth, and variety of human sexuality.

[war1025]

Perhaps in the future you could avoid leading with things such as:

> that's about as useful as a story of how someone prayed and their mom's cancer went away.

All I did was comment and say, "Hey, we did this and it worked for us" and you replied with the equivalent of "Go fuck yourself, I don't want to hear it"

Of course modern birth control opens many doors, I don't think that was ever in question. It's a highly personal choice and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Anyway, cheers. Hope you're having a good day.

[WA]

In your other comment, you wrote in a kinda magic-wishful-thinking way "you can only get pregnant if you really want kids". That is a contradiction to baby = egg + sperm.

If a woman has sex without some kind of fertility awareness, she gets pregnant. If she knows when she ovulates and avoids sex during that time and 5 days prior, she might not get pregnant.

Thing is: female libido is highest when the fertility in a cycle is the highest. So biologically speaking, women have to actively fight their hormones if they want to avoid pregnancy.

[war1025]

> In your other comment, you wrote in a kinda magic-wishful-thinking way "you can only get pregnant if you really want kids".

I really think you are all just intentionally misunderstanding me.

I am not saying "You can only get pregnant if you want to get pregnant"

I am saying "A couple in a committed relationship can fairly easily and reliably avoid having kids without the use of contraceptives if they don't want them."