[NmAmDa]

It is amazing seeing how many lies can a single comment have

> More than half of Ethiopia's 110 million people have no electric power

Might be true but it is a wide problem and have a root causes that not all belong to the current issue, maybe you forget you are currently in a civil war with army have actions that are war crimes.

>More than 80% of the Nile waters come out of Ethiopia

Nile river is historically and from legal perspective an international river not an Ethiopian property. Violating this always comes with consequences.

>* Out of these countries, only Egypt and Sudan use the Nile river for irrigation and power generation.

This a complete bold lie usually spread by people who try to misrepresent the problem. Here is a Wikipedia page the list all of Ethiopian dams for various function like irrigation and hydropower generation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dams_and_reservoirs_in_Ethiopi...

>This happened due to Colonial era agreements in which great Britain (Then ruling Egypt) brokered agreements which "gave" Egypt usage and veto rights. but it was not consulted by the British and is not signatory to the agreements. And It was fighting to maintain its independence against Europe so it had little power to spare for water politics at the time.

There are two points not just one. But these Colonial era agreements are the same which gave Ethiopia benishangul-gumuz (which belonged to Sudan at this time) was between British and Ethiopian emperor also. Also, all treaties was with Ethiopia being independent and took even land from Sudan. The other point if you are just saying we were forced to do so. Okay lets go back to revise all this era agreement and give benishangul-gumuz back to Sudan (it is the area where the dam built) and let's revise everything. This is literary what international laws' violation means. If you just rely on the fact the can ignore it doesn't expect people who will get hurt to act and even attack you. When US get an existential problem with USSR have nuclear missiles nearby in CUBA didn't buy the argument that cuba can do whatever it wants.

>* In 1959, The Sudanese and Egyptians governments met and awarded each other 18.5 billion cubic meter of water and 55 billion cubic meters of water respectively. Again ignoring the other Nile basin countries, including Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Ethiopia....

This is an agreement about how they share their mutual share, notice that this agreement didn't violate the previous agreements from the colonial era.

> Egypt is unfortunately threatening us with war if there is a drop in their water share

Maybe because 10 years of negotiating that they provided Ethiopia with time it kept wasting until they do whatever they want and putting existential treat to its people. Ethiopian actions are the root cause of the instability. Bold lies that Ethiopian keep pushing publicly is one reason of escalations, a couple of months ago the Ethiopian PM claimed that there are no soldiers from Eritrea joining the attack on tigray area then when the truth comes he was forced to say it. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-conflict/ethiopi...

>I am an Ethiopian, and I realize that Egypt relies on the Nile. As far as I can see, public opinion here (to the extent I see it) is not about depriving Egypt of water and life, it's about living a life of dignity. It's about a fair and equitable use of the water

The problem was never that Egypt opposing to building the dam which almost get built. It is how long does it take for fill the dam and make it longer so that it reduce its negative effect and have enforceable agreement about the dam which Ethiopia spent 10 years of negotiation denying. Don't talk on "not about depriving Egypt of water and life"

>Again, unfortunately, Egypt is signing military deals with Djibouti, Kenya, Uganda in what is perceived here as an intimidation campaign

What is the problem of doing this? Ethiopia have troops from Eritrea helping them to attack innocent people and troops in Somalia which used to intervene in their domestic affairs. Can you call this a hostile action in the region?

Last thing I want to add is to please read the "Treaties affecting Nile water use" section of the Wikipedia article you linked because it will tell you about the misinformation in the parent comment.

[dang]

Please make your substantive points without crossing into flamewar. The topics is obviously sensitive; most of us here don't know anything about it, and are here to learn. I understand what it's like to feel provoked by another comment that you consider misleading, but you hurt your case when you attack the other like this.

In particular, the word "lie" implies not just being wrong, but intentional deceit. Since we can't know others' intent via internet comments, that's rarely a fair word to use and it mostly just escalates flamewars.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

[Zimzallabim]

> Nile river is historically and from legal perspective an international river not an Ethiopian property

Ethiopia has never claimed the Nile is its sole property. It's seeking fair use of a dam on its own territory and equitable sharing of the waters in a manner that doesn't infringes on its sovereignty.

>...a Wikipedia page the list all of Ethiopian dams

I don't see a single dam aside from the GERD on the list that's on the Nile. So I don't see how you could say it's a lie. Are you suggesting a dam on any tributary river in Ethiopia is subject to Egypt's wishes?

>But these Colonial era agreements are the same...

No they are not. Ethiopia was NOT a party to the 1929 Anglo-Egyptian treaty unlike the 1902 Anglo-Ethiopian treaty regarding the border w/ Sudan.

>This is an agreement about how they share their mutual share...

According to you, mutual share means that Egypt gets 66% Sudan gets 22%, the rest is lost to evaporation and Ethiopia gets 0. Just as agreed upon by Egypt & the British in the colonial agreement.

>10 years of negotiating that they provided Ethiopia...

Curious that you characterize Egypt's approach as negotiation when 10 years ago when Ethiopia started building the Dam, Egypt's president "negotiated" by stating that "all options are on the table". Egypt has obstinately held on to the idea that it is entitled to a specific amount of water it has historically been afforded per year in perpetuity regardless of the conditions of the Nile or in Ethiopia.

The fact of the matter is the Egyptian government is upset that it is no longer capable of holding a monopoly over the Nile.

[NmAmDa]

No one said that building the dam is not their rights but devil is always in details. The problem lies with two things

1- An agreement about the dam and how it operates because when it is in full operation and something happen this will be catastrophic to sudan and Egypt

2- Reduce the impact of water shortage to egypt ans sudan by extending the timeline for fulfillment

Again these two points is always the core of negotiations not the idea of dam existence itself. So saying this is not even something for a discussion.

* the agreement between sudan and Egypt is about how to share their percentage or what drainage countries get. Do you say that all other countries get 0 drops of water from the Nile?

* In 2015 Egypt had agreed that Ethiopia can build the dam and continue negotiations about the reducing impact and agreement about the dam which Ethiopia evaded this for 6 years? What can you say about that? People who wants a military actions will not negotiate for a 10 years. Take isreal and their indirect and direct attacks on Iranian nuclear program because they see it as a potential existential threat ( which is something doable that they will have). If Ethiopia is refusing all the diplomatic solution to cooperate and wants to do what it wants only, what do you think a US will do if it was in Egypt place. Taking US history into consideration I doubt they will negotiate before paralyzing Ethiopian army at least.

* regarding treaties, Ethiopia took the land from sudan with an agreement with British against Sudanese will, it is a colonial era agreement that Ethiopian ignore when they talk about their rights and how these treaty about nile was forced on them. So extend the logic and get the land back and then negotiate a fair deal with all nile countries.

Hint: Until a couple of months ago, Ethiopians were occupying large area from Sudanese land ( even without an colonial treaty) and they said they will act by military if sudan didn't withraw from their lands. https://www.reuters.com/article/sudan-ethiopia-int-idUSKBN29...

And thanks for down voting.

[sgift]

> I don't see a single dam aside from the GERD on the list that's on the Nile. So I don't see how you could say it's a lie. Are you suggesting a dam on any tributary river in Ethiopia is subject to Egypt's wishes?

It sounds obvious to me that a dam on a tributary river to Nile is for the purpose of the problem here like a dam on Nile since it reduces the water available downwards in Nile.

[pasabagi]

I just had a look at the list, and I feel that looking at 'dams' is pretty misleading. The point is to look at capacity, no? I mean, nobody in their right mind cares if somebody builds a dam that has a capacity of half a cubic kilometer.

So it's a weird dialogue: on the one hand, the only relevant dam, capacity-wise, is the GERD. On the other, there are patently plenty of other damns in the Nile river basin.

(Obviously, anybody who is more aware of the issues here should correct me - my feeling is that Ethiopia and Egypt are being weirdly bellicose over an issue that is totally solvable to mutual satisfaction.)

[Someone]

I’m not sure about that “totally solvable to mutual satisfaction.” Even if it there is enough water now and they can reach agreement on sharing the water’s advantages (which means Egypt has to give up something), looking at population growth (about 2% a year for Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Egypt), 2.9% for Ethiopia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ethiopia), that can change rapidly.

If those growth rates continue the per capita amount of Nile water will halve in 25-30 years.

[pasabagi]

Is per-capita water a relevant metric? I doubt human consumption is a significant portion of water demand - I mean, doesn't farming typically use the vast majority?

[Someone]

I think so. Why do you think we farm? For fun or to feed the population?

[NmAmDa]

One of the main problems is the Ethiopian PM is using this issue to his benefit to try and unify all people around him and make them ignore all things that he is doing in other issues like what happens in Tigary. That makes something like making compromises which is needed for any serious negotiations is a bad PR and making him looks weak.

[Zimzallabim]

The dam is actually the one issue that Ethiopians agree upon regardless of who the head of government is. The stance of Ethiopian government has not changed between EPRDF and the current ruling party.

Ethiopians have always been united when it comes to the GERD because it's not just a political stunt. It's a matter of development and survival just as it is for the Egyptian people. That's why it's best for Egypt's government refrain from making threats and negotiate in good faith.

[ilstormcloud]

> Nile river is historically and from legal perspective an international river not an Ethiopian property. Violating this always comes with consequences.

The Nile is an international river. All of us accept that. But you should reconsider if you think Ethiopia will accept any treaties that Egypt signed with its colonial master (without Ethiopia being present).

As for consequences, We've been facing the consequences of this for all our lives in the form of food insecurity, famine, rolling blackouts. I will trade food and power for Egyptian military threats or American sanctions. So your consequences are not really that scary considering what's at stake.

* There are 11 countries in the basin. Of the 11, only Egypt and Sudan are using it for any development project.

* Since it's an international resource, we should all be using it.

* Since Egypt and Sudan gets 100% of the benefit, they will likely see a decrease. That's the physical reality

* Right now, Ethiopia gets 0%. We'll increase it.

The gotcha comments don't do much to address the reality on the ground. And it's not particularly merit-worthy for me to bother going point by point "debunking" you. And we're already deep in flame-war territory which is strongly discouraged on HN.

Good luck

[raincom]

There are fundamental problems with international laws; whoever has the power, enforces its version of law. In fact, the state is founded in Law, whose enforcement depends on the monopoly on violence. That's why the State has monopoly on violence; and it takes different forms, through prosecutions, through imprisonments, etc.

Instead of talking about legal perspectives or of interests of Ethiopia or of Egypt, one can talk in terms of 'reasonableness'.

It is reasonable to use the water that drains off Ethiopian watershed; here, Egypt can't use some colonial era treaties unless it wants to colonize Ethiopia. No reasonable person will accept the claim that 95% of Nile water should go to Sudan and Egypt.

You also raise another reasonable point: "It is how long does it take for fill the dam and make it longer so that it reduce its negative effect". This is something many people agree with. However, this can't be solved using the historical outflows to the Nile. Just because 95 percent of the water went downstream to Sudan and Egypt for the last 900 years, one can't expect Ethiopia to release 95% of the water this year. This is where the real dispute lies, and that dispute manifests in terms of "how slow one has to fill up the dam". Maybe, both Egypt and Ethiopia can put percentages: Egypt can say "just release 80% this year, decrease 5% every year until it reaches 50%", or Ethiopia can say "we will release 10% every year until the dam is full". That way, one can see where both parties stand.

Law without violence(enforcement) is useless. Colonial powers had that power when they assigned most of the water to Egypt and Sudan. One can't expect this now.