[antris]

>Unethical actions are unethical even if the "game" allows for it.

Nobody says what Apple is doing is ethical, at least I sure didn't. The point is, the problem runs deeper than one company. The system has an incentive structure where companies benefit by doing as Apple does. It's like blaming a ball for rolling down a hill. If you don't want the ball to roll, go play on a level field.

>You appeal to government authority

You make this sound like I'm for some kind of dictatorship.

I firmly believe in a government democratically elected by the people. Even if the system is capitalist in nature, it should always be subservient to the will of the people. The governments should be tied to the will and interest of the people. Especially in the US it seems that the government acts for the corporate special interests. In that case, the solution is more democracy, not less.

>non-sustainable companies are NOT givin a "competitive advantage" by capitalism

So why are all the big companies ruining our climate then? What's the explanation? Random chance?

[syshum]

Democracy is 2 wolves and a Lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

I firmly believe in individualism and individual rights, governments are insulted by people to guard individuals rights nothing more. Governments just power and authority comes from that defense of rights, not from majority rule

If 51% agree that the other 49% should be enslaved does not make it ethical or right, but in your worldview that democratic government would be "tied to the will of the people"

No, government like fire is a useful tool but a dangerous leader and should never be left whims of the "majority"

[antris]

>If 51% agree that the other 49% should be enslaved does not make it ethical or right, but in your worldview that democratic government would be "tied to the will of the people"

Of course democracy requires a constitution and a stable society to work. If there is no constitution that protects human rights and a majority thinks enslavement is okay, democracy isn't the right tool anymore. That's a description of a failed society at war against each other. I'm not suggesting that all problems can be solved by vote, just that it's much better to solve problems by vote than by bloodshed or by who has the most money, if you have that option. In a failed society, such option does not exist. That doesn't mean that democracy doesn't work. It clearly does in several countries.

[anoncake]

Anything else is one wolf deciding to eat two lambs. Also, if you enslave almost half the population you definitely don't have a democracy anymore -- unless your slaves are allowed and able to vote and participate in public discourse like anyone else, which likely would not quite be slavery anymore.

[bccdee]

What a perfect analogy — wolves and lambs voting on what to have for dinner. In the absence of democratic governance, the wolves will just eat the lambs because nobody's stopping them.

The wolf here is Apple. I can't make my own phone. Neither can you. And most users are substantially less tech-savvy from us, to the point where all they can really do is configure the settings on the factory-installed OS. The technology we use is overwhelmingly under the control of tech giants; there is no viable phone OS other than iOS (Apple-controlled) and Android + Play store (Google-controlled).

What do we do? Let ourselves get eaten? Or do we, the lambs (who are the overwhelmingly in the majority in our society) exert democratic power to counterbalance the capitalist power which controls the tech in our lives?

> If 51% agree that the other 49% should be enslaved does not make it ethical or right

Right, which is why the constitution exists: to protect certain individual rights from state overreach. But it absolutely does not follow that, since it is desirable that the government be constrained in some ways, it is always better for the government to do less.