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by gonehome 1806 days ago
I think Google has a culture problem (they're massive, doesn't apply everywhere, etc. etc.).

There's a weird sense of internal entitlement where some (likely a small, but still substantial) number of people work there, are well paid, and yet act internally as if it's some terrible place doing terrible things (yet stay working there). Whatever way they rationalize this to themselves - it's odd. I don't have first hand exposure, have only heard things through friends that were employees.

Some of the most coddled/well compensated employees in human history acting as if they're in some sort of oppressive sweat shop.

Reminds me of this: https://paygo.ghost.io/why-did-i-leave-google-or-why-did-i-s...

The employees also pushed to avoid working for the USG, pushed to avoid the JEDI contract (though they likely would have lost it anyway) while at the same time trying to work within China (while Deep Mind may or may not be indirectly assisting in Uighur camps [0]). I think this is morally wrong and the arguments are often simple/naive.

[0]: ">>Peter Thiel: ...But somehow it’s very difficult to talk about this stuff coherently. I had a set of conversations with some of the Google people in the deep mind AI technology, “is your AI being used to run the concentration camps in Xinjiang?” and “Well, We don’t know and don’t ask any questions.” You have this almost magical thinking that by pretending that everything is fine, that’s how you engage and have a conversation. And you make the world better. And it’s some combination of wishful thinking. It’s useful idiots, you know, it’s CCP fifth columnist collaborators. So it’s some super position of all these things. But I think if you think of it ideologically or in terms of human rights or something like that, I’m tempted to say it’s just profoundly racist. It’s like saying that because they look different, they’re not white people, they don’t have the same rights. It’s something super wrong. But I don’t quite know how you unlock that."

https://nixonseminar.com/2021/04/the-nixon-seminar-april-6-2...

5 comments

> There's a weird sense of internal entitlement where some (likely a small, but still substantial) number of people work there, are well paid, and yet act internally as if it's some terrible place doing terrible things (yet stay working there). Whatever way they rationalize this to themselves - it's odd.

So far in my career I've worked for a government contractor, doing basically good things that benefit the government and the public, a large service exclusively serving gambling companies some of whom were committing obvious crimes including automatically gender detecting players and rate limiting anyone with a woman's name (under the assumption that any women on their service are men who've been banned or rate limited themselves using their wive's credit cards), and a supermarket, and honestly, the hardest place to leave was the gambling company that I thought constantly about how I should leave.

It took suddenly being made redundant due to the pandemic for me to really try hard to find another job, I'd applied to plenty but I never really pushed myself properly, or took them seriously enough because stability at the cost of bitterness and feeling like the smallest cog in a meat grinder of human misery is a weird sort of comfortable, it's leaving a splinter in because pulling it out is scary, it's not ripping off a bandaid, a "childish" failure of character, but ultimately relatable and human.

And I _wasn't_ making 6 figures. I _didn't_ spend years of my life building up to getting into that position, it was just the first job out of university paying slightly more than the average, I can't imagine if I had got into Google and realised what these people must've realised about themselves and the system and how they are really no exits that aren't steps down unless you're entrepreneurial and willing to take a big risk, you think Facebook/Apple/Amazon/Netflix/Uber don't make some big moral compromises to sell and produce in China?

I'm not (trying to) justify their decisions, just rather painfully admit that I can relate.

The blog you link to was written by Noam Bardin, the CEO of Waze, a billion-dollar acquisition. His experience and incentives will be quite different from the average Googler.
He talks about the average Googler and the culture, which was the relevant bit.
You make it sound as if Joe wants Google to stop working with the US and start working with China. The truth is that it's Frank who doesn't want to work with USG, Henry that organizes against Jedi and Sarah that tries to get back into the Chinese market. The three likely never met.
I think what Thiel is referring to is that advances in computer vision which are published in scientific papers enable others to build better surveillance systems.

This criticism doesn't just apply to DeepMind. The reason that he is mentioning them specifically is because was an early investor so he has access to their team.

>yet act internally as if it's some terrible place doing terrible things

>Some of the most coddled/well compensated employees in human history acting as if tthey're in some sort of oppressive sweat shop.

Does the existence of people worse off than you eliminate your right to complain?

It kind of sounds like that's what you're saying. If you're coddled (by some metric) you should... shut up?

You should have some perspective.

If your complaint is “what? Sushi again?!” then you should shut up (imo).

That’s just a subset, others take an overly adversarial stance to drive attention to themselves as activists - rather than have in-good-faith discussions about stuff.

>If your complaint is “what? Sushi again?!”

None of the cartoons were saying that though, were they?

>You should have some perspective.

Should my perspective expand to include straw men?

In comic #6, from 2010-07-27 ( https://goomics.net/6/ ) two street demonstrations -- one of Google employees -- run into each other, and the following conversation takes place:

> Hi there. Why are you demonstrating?

> They're laying off one in four workers in the hospital. You?

> They're taking away our M&Ms from building 42's microkitchen.

> Wow, that's harsh.

So apparently the author of TFA didn't think a scenario like this was all that much of a strawman... Either.

Honestly, you're really bending over backwards in defense of privilege here. Why?

You inadvertently stumbled on precisely the point. TFA isnt exhibiting a sense of entitlement the OP complained he was. TFA is instead making fun of it.

OP thinks complaining about the company's terrible behavior and complaining about the lack of M&Ms are more or less the same thing and that if you are bothered about the former you should quietly quit coz hey, not everybody gets sushi twice a week.

I'm not defending privilege. I'm attacking the notion that you should STFU and fuck off when you see injustice because YOU personally happen to be comfortable.

To port it to another context, for instance, Oscar Schindler could have given up his privilege (he was quite privileged!), quit his job and begged on the street for scraps of food and many would have honestly argued that if he was that bothered by what he saw that he should have.

Should he though?

Huh? At no point did I read OP as claiming the comic "exhibits" privilege; of fucking course it exposes (by ridiculing) it.

You now appear to be in violent agreement with them, and the misunderstanding seems to be mainly on your side.

It was a direct quote from the article I linked: https://paygo.ghost.io/why-did-i-leave-google-or-why-did-i-s... - not a straw man I made up [0].

The 'You' wasn't you personally, but the general 'you' (similar to what you used in "you should... shut up?")

I'm sensing snark, but I'm genuinely not being snarky and I'm not really interested in fighting over this.

[0]: "After being acquired by Google, we had a “fun day” at the Google campus where we were shown around, wide eyed, to see the facilities. We had lunch in the cafeteria and while on line, a Googler ahead of us was overheard saying “What? Sushi again???” which became our inside joke around entitlement."