[hooplah]

If you truly believe it's this dire, does it matter?

It's up to that country to cut emissions even if they accept that job on behalf of other countries.

But first, lets start on just not dumping plastic into oceans, building more coal plants, and generally not cutting emissions at all (China)

Then we can worry on the manufacturing like cement and steel (I believe we should make our own steel anyway)

The more stuff we make, the more control we have over the emissions during the process. Because apparently, other countries don't give a shit.

Go look at the countries that have cut emissions. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/climate-change-co2-emissions...

That's the only metric that matters, anything else is propaganda for those who aren't.

[adamcstephens]

What makes you think the US gives a shit either? Companies have spent the last forty years moving manufacturing out of the country because it lets them profit a bit more. They don’t give a shit about climate change unless they can make more money off it. I’m all for bringing manufacturing back on-shore, but what makes you think the lobbyists will stop trying to undermine environmental regulations if we do?

I consider it propaganda to blame China for all its emissions, when how much of them are to build and manufacture junk for the west? No, raw emissions numbers are not “the only metric that matters” because we live in a complex world with a complex web of trade. Sure, China can and should do a much better job cutting emissions. Though if that causes production prices to go up, the American companies will just move production somewhere else that is further behind in environmental regulations.

Nobody in power gives a shit about the climate and emissions. The words you’re hearing from them don’t match their actions, and we in the US are nowhere near a sustainable level even if you ignore our outsourced energy usage.

[hooplah]

> What makes you think the US gives a shit either?

Because we cut our emissions by a lot while increasing energy output & manufacturing, and it's many people's #1 issue.

I don't remember hearing about climate change in the CCP's 100 year anniversary speech, just bloody head bashing rhetoric.

Other countries outsource to China as well, why haven't they been cutting their emissions, there's only 12 countries or so that have.

You can hand-wave China away ignoring the numbers, or how much we send over there, what they are creating, how they are creating it, but you aren't doing the Earth any favor.

All of that doesn't address their new coal factories or plastic dumping either. Let's get a handle on that. Then let's worry about the manufacturing emissions as we don't even have alternative solutions for concrete or steel yet. Fair?

[adamcstephens]

I’m not hand waving China’s emissions away, and explicitly said they can and should do more. If and when they decide to deal with the problem, I expect they’ll make a lot more progress than we have.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree that America is trying to cut emissions. There seems to be neither political nor corporate will to do so. Furthermore Americans have zero desire for reducing their standard of living to help the planet.

[hooplah]

> If and when they decide to deal with the problem I expect they’ll make a lot more progress than we have.

Sure. I will update my stance if or when the CCP decides to do something, especially if they shoot past everyone in reduced emissions.

I won't hold my breath though, unless I'm in Shanghai's smog.

[adamcstephens]

Seems like your reason to be here is to point the finger at China while ignoring the problems in the US.

Personally, I'll focus on the US since it's a massive contributor to global warming and is the place I have the most leverage of any. Not that I have any real leverage, given the rampant corruption in American politics, but it's a better place to spend my energy.

[hooplah]

No, I personally think the US should manufacture more at home so we can control the process and reduce as many emissions as we can. I believe we are doing an okay job, and the numbers show, but we could be doing even more if politicians tried.

I also think we should invest more in natural gas and nuclear to wean off of coal entirely. While continuing investments in renewables in areas that make sense (wind in Texas, solar in Arizona, geo thermal, hydro, etc.) In addition to continuing researching new materials to replace others that may cause more emissions.

I'd just like to see the largest emissions tackled as well since time is off the essence apparently.

Also not a huge fan of plastic dumping, and anyone who does that should be sanctioned.

I criticize US politicians every damn day, but I can call the CCP out in this thread at the same time. It's not a countries fault, it's the leaders, and the CCP is authoritarian, they could do these things if they wanted to.

As far as US leaders... Democrats need to embrace the nat. gas pipelines, fracking, nuclear, and domestic manufacturing. Republicans need to embrace renewables in areas that make sense. Republicans have warmed up to renewables, Texas runs on 100% wind some days, but we need nat. gas for peak periods. Both parties need to support nuclear and sanctioning polluters.

Don't get me started on Europe...

[pastage]

This is an global issue it's up to everyone to lower emissions, exporting all your factories to China has been the solution for all of those countries. We can not blame China for that.

[hooplah]

Again, I support moving more manufacturing to the US for sure.

And we can demand our politicians to do that so we can control emissions, as well as try to hold countries accountable through sanctions. (don't buy any slave-made products, don't buy any coal-made products)

We can certainly blame China for building coal factories, dumping plastic in the ocean, and generally just not giving a fuck about human rights or environmental rights.

I don't take anyone serious who advocates green policies without holding the biggest polluters accountable who aren't changing their ways.

The "per capita" and "outsourcing" points are propaganda used to deflect responsibility. Unless you have a stat how much emissions come from that outsourcing you are waiving their responsibility via a talking point.

Also, we're not talking about making emissions zero, we're talking about LOWERING. So even if they didn't cut emissions for the stuff they make for us, cutting domestic emissions should still lower their overall emissions. China isn't getting more factories, factories are moving out, so we should see a decrease.