[dragontamer]

I'm 100% certain in the vaccine's effectiveness on the average American.

Sure: Immunocompromised individuals may not be saved even with the vaccine (not enough B-cells or T-cells to fight off the disease even with the vaccine training them up). But its pretty much 100% proven at this point that the vaccines are 99.999%+ safe (all deaths due to vaccine are measured in the 10-in-a-million or smaller magnitude), while being 95% effective at preventing symptoms against the disease in question. Because the vaccine has been deployed to over 100-million Americans, I have evidence on how it works!!

There's no doubt anymore in my mind. There wasn't any doubt in my mind in December 2020, and we've only got 7 more months of evidence: the virus is surging in unvaccinated areas (ex: India), while receding in vaccinated areas. Something like 100% of LA's COVID19 deaths were from unvaccinated indivuals, despite only having ~50% vaccination rates (so 50% / 50% split of vaccinated vs unvaccinated in that population, but 100% deaths coming from only the unvaccinated pool?)

What more evidence do you want?

[briefcomment]

And are you 100% certain your sister and sister-in-law are average Americans?

[dragontamer]

I believe them to be well above-average Americans on the scale of intelligence.

If its this difficult to convince them of the facts, when they're open to understanding scientific data, then I don't expect much from the average American.

[tdfx]

I did not downvote you, but I want to explain why some people might be. I don't doubt that the majority of people here, even people downvoting you, don't disagree that the vaccine seems to be mostly safe and effective, based on the limited data we have so far. But you're not saying that: you're saying you're 100% sure and willing to bet your life and the lives of others on that certainty, which is not rooted in statistics but rather emotion. You're following the same style of thinking as the conservatives you criticized, just at the opposite end of the political spectrum.

[dragontamer]

Name the causes of death due to the vaccine.

* J&J has that blood clot issue, measured to be less than 15 in 8-million. Though serious, we now know how to deal with these blood clots thanks to the temporary pause. So with treatment, that vaccine won't kill many people anymore (if you count 15-in-8-million as "many").

* There's the heart-palpatation issue, which is measured to be less than 10-in-a-million and hasn't caused many deaths IIRC.

That's it. After 100-million Americans have received the vaccine for several months, that's all we've seen. And that's taking the worst of the two vaccines that have come out.

---------

mRNA self-disintegrates at room temperature. That's why they have to keep the darn thing at -80C or -30C. After a few days in the body (or ~37C), its __ literally __ gone and can no longer affect the body.

I'm willing to give a few weeks or even months to see if there's lingering effects of the mRNA spike proteins generated from the vaccine. But at this point, I'm willing to call it. The mechanics of how the darn thing works means that long-term effects are negligible.

That's why our bodies use DNA to begin with! Because mRNA (although effective as an "execution engine" so to speak) is extremely volatile and barely lasts. Our bodies transcribe DNA into mRNA instructions constantly, renewing the "code" that our body executes.

--------

Its put-up or shut-up time. The vaccine is in over 100-million Americans. If you think its unsafe, prove it. Find the deaths and report back.

EDIT: That's the thing. COVID19 is "put up or shut up" time. We have the evidence staring at us in the face. Climate Change, as annoying as it is, isn't anywhere near as "provable" as COVID19. We actually have placebo studies on different population sets and a proper experiment set up to create evidence for our COVID19 policies.

Climate change? We don't have a 2nd Earth to run as our "control study" in our experiment. We literally cannot experiment upon Climate change to get the same level of evidence that's available in the COVID19 debate.

And still: look at all these downvoters. Look at this debate. Its ridiculous. If we can't even get COVID19 figured out in our arguments, why the hell should we assume people will agree with us on climate change?

[Pokepokalypse]

The vaccine is 0% effective against denialists.

[Supermancho]

> I'm 100% certain in the vaccine's effectiveness on the average American.

The effectiveness is in giving them COVID and helping them fight against the intentional infection, via mRNA antibody response. COVID will eventually become yet-another-endemic-disease, that everyone is vaccinated against. There are some people who are marginally genetically susceptible, who will survive with the vaccine. There are some people who are genetically susceptible and with or without the vaccine, will die once infected.

The question is, why get vaccinated and take the chance if, due to vaccinations your chances are low to get infected (albeit almost guaranteed over 10 years imo)? That's ok with me. The fact that the unvaccinated individuals are the majority of people dying is unsurprising (as expected, there are some vaccinated deaths as well).

This is the uncomfortable truth, which doesn't change what can be done or will happen. The big difference vaccines have made, is an overall reduction in total deaths (as intended) and speeding up the process of total viral exposure (as intended).