[dkshdkjshdk]

Regarding point 2, what's wrong with assuming that 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC now and forever? If I'm not trading asset A for asset B, then it's hardly "speculation".

If it makes it any better, I can lend BTC and ask to get returns in USDC (which should be worth as much as 1 USD, if you trust Coinbase). Am I still speculating?

Regarding point 3, where is the speculation, exactly? If, at any point, the BTC I left as collateral goes below a certain level of collateralization (let's say 200% of the value of the borrowed asset), I'll just get liquidated: whoever lent me the USD will get their USD back, and I will lose my collateral (or a part of it, at least), if I fail to keep the value of my collateral over the threshold.

I think perhaps we have a very different idea of what "speculation" is supposed to be...

Either way, I guess you accept that there are use-cases that are otherwise not being provided by more traditional tech/institutions. Good.

[skohan]

> what's wrong with assuming that 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC now and forever?

Because if 1 BTC = 0 USD, and has no real-world utility outside of speculation, there is no compelling reason to try to acquire more BTC.

[dkshdkjshdk]

> Because if 1 BTC = 0 USD...

A big assumption here. I can also hypothesize that 1 USD = 0 EUR, at some point in the future, and, thus, holding or buying USD is pure speculation and there is no compelling reason to try to acquire more USD.

Under this logic, I shouldn't ever buy or hold anything (forex, stocks, etc.), lest its market value goes to zero.

Also, thanks for ignoring the rest of my point: What if I choose to get my returns in some asset that is pegged to USD (e.g. DAI, USDC), am I still speculating on the value of BTC?

[skohan]

For 1 USD = 0 EUR to become a reality, we would have to imagine a massive geopolitical shift has taken place.

For 1 BTC = 0 USD, all you need is one government, which has been the victim or ransomware attacks, to regulate BTC out of existence.

[dkshdkjshdk]

> For 1 USD = 0 EUR to become a reality, we would have to imagine a massive geopolitical shift has taken place.

Which is a possibility (the same way that 1 BTC = 0 USD is also a possibility; just a very unlikely possibility).

> For 1 BTC = 0 USD, all you need is one government, which has been the victim or ransomware attacks, to regulate BTC out of existence.

Unfortunately, reality proves you wrong. Here [0] is an example of one government regulating BTC out of existence (or trying to)... but I'm sure you can find others.

What's the price of BTC today? (hint: not zero)

I think there's not much point in continuing this discussion, since you seem pretty convinced that the ultimate value of BTC is zero (even though you admit that there probably are legitimate use-cases for such things). If you already pre-decided that it is the case (and you are totally within your right to speculate on the value of BTC), nothing I can say will change it.

Also, thanks for ignoring the rest of my point: What if I choose to get my returns in some asset that is pegged to USD (e.g. DAI, USDC), am I still speculating on the value of BTC?

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/15/india-plans-cryptocurrency-b...