Unfortunately, I think it's easier to fund something like the F-35 because it can be framed as a way to avoid an existential threat. It's difficult to do the same with fundamental science
That argument only holds because it was purported to replace different weapons systems that were needed for mitigating a threat. The threat is the primary motivation and cost reduction is secondary. I.e., if not but for the existential threat there's no need for the JSF or any system it would replace.
The F-22 was sufficient for threat mitigation. The F-35 raison d'être was cost reduction, after that was exportability which again was supposed to help with cost reduction.
Edit; comparing the logic of a 'but for' vs a 'necessary' condition. Was the F-35 necessary for threat mitigation. No. Was it framed as the necessary for cost savings, yes.
Your oversimplifying and missing a lot. The F-35 is not a replacement or substitute for the F-22.
The F-22 is an air superiority fighter. The F-35 is a multi role strike aircraft. The F-22 would never be allowed for export, because it has features we don't want to share even with allies. The F-35 was designed for export to allies from day one.
There's no scenario where just buying more F-22's made more sense than building the F-35. The F-35's project problems, primarily driven from the joint acquisition strategy are their own thing, completely independent of the F-22.
The F-35's problems as I understand it stem principally from the Navy wanting a VTOL craft. That whole system seems to be front and center when "stuff not working" comes up.
Their designed for slightly different roles. The F-35’s R&D looks hard to justify vs simply having more F-22, but the F-35B can do verticals takeoff for example and the F-22 can’t.
So, the real question is if the F-35’s should have had fewer versions and thus been more capable in it’s remaining roles.
There's similar analogies here to the space shuttle.
For the shuttle to get approved, it had to meet the demands of many masters. The fact that it had to meet DoD missions as well as NASA missions made it a bit of a boondoggle. Likewise, the JSF needed to meet the Marine Corps demands of VTOL to take the place of the AV8B.
It's hard to remain focused when you have so many stakeholders. As the saying goes, a camel is a horse designed by committee.
>Was the F-35 necessary for threat mitigation. No. Was it framed as the necessary for cost savings, yes.
I think we're saying the same thing. The argument is, "Was the F22/F18/Fwhatever/weapon-system necessary for threat mitigation? Yes."
With that said, if proponents of the F35 want to frame it as "threat reduction + cost savings" that's how they get the budget approved. But the point stands that without a threat, there's no basis for the cost savings argument. I'm not saying it was effective as cost reduction.
To circle back to the original point, it's much easier to get a budget approved when the basis is existential threat, rather than "science is cool."
I don’t think it’s a great example of using existential threat for sales, when the whole thing was sold as a cost saving. Pretty much everyone at the time just wanted more F-22s. I was a technical advisor on the project.
Yes, if you prefer eye candy photos to public safety. By the way will James Webb wield a modern eye candy capable sensor? Not sure about that.
There is few worth from remote sensing unreachable (even in theory) objects. Kepler already proved theoretized Goldilocks Zone rocky planets and, in general, provided a lot of data for non-field research (less exciting than Hubble photos indeed). Last, but not least, what's the JWST's mission exactly?
Also, from taxpayers' money perspective Kepler's component quality was complete disaster.
So, I'd better invest in more Martian/Jovian probes than in revival of obsoleted project. Such revival is very similar to Russian GLONASS (a competitor to 1970s NAVSTAR) programme reboot.
The JWST's mission is to see deep infared, which can pass through interstellar clouds. It will uncover things that have been veiled to us since the beginning of history. It can only be built as a space telescope because the frequency of its intended observations are so low that to a device sensitive to them, air radiates light of blinding intensity.
There is a long list of scientists that know exactly what research they are doing on JWST down to the minute [0]
For example, Dr Christine Chen et al will be using JWST for at least 34.9 hours to study the Icy Kuiper Belts in Exoplanetary Systems using near infrared spectroscopy [1]
Yeah, I read that, just not impressed by minor projects with low outcome. It roughly equal to routine PhD-tier experiments done on the accelerator at some provincial lab.
Just look at breakthrough chances from, for example, 5 days trans-neptunian object search or the pointing of instrument at largely unexplored Uranus system for petty 30 hours.
I hate how shortsighted these comments tend to be, but I can understand them.
The money for projects like this, largely due to the sensitive nature of it all, still ends up staying local to the governments funding the projects, which means a significant minority of it still gets recouped in taxes two or three degrees down, and the balance that can't be recouped still ends up funding colossal technological advances, e.g advances in EM sensors, lensing, computing, electronic resiliency, power generation, the list goes on.
The reason governments spend on projects like this regardless of public opinion is because they're necessary to advance the state of science and engineeeing when investment returns are out of the question near-term.
Even defense spending operates this way, though the degree to which we pour good money after bad in defense is probably worth scrutiny. At least JWST will bring value, unlike the f35.
Well, all the tech advances brought by doing R&D of JWST happened already ~15 years ago and already are at the market. But its just the same thing as with R&D done for F-35. With notable exception F-35's R&D is still work in progress because of upgrades, while JWST will remain a piece of late 2000s tech to be taken out of the attic in early 2020.
Another important point to consider is that by having these big projects you maintain the ability to do them, capabilities need to be maintained by exercising them.