[MattGaiser]

But not because some government official suddenly decided they should.

In the USA, the rules are known well in advance. There might be questionable rules, but POTUS cannot decree a rule into existence and put a bag over your head an hour later.

[CJefferson]

People who spent years in Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (or are still there, after 20 years, without being charged) might disagree with you on that.

[MattGaiser]

> In the USA

What the US does to non-citizens outside the USA is a messy area. Inside the USA? The rules are far more clear.

[Jochim]

On an individual basis the rules are often vague and selectively enforced.

As a collective institution there was the whole Edward Snowden thing where he pointed out that the NSA had definitely not been following those rules and no one who knew what they were doing seemed particularly keen on stopping them.

[InspiredIdiot]

That is a big problem but kindof a separate issue. He may have been targeted because he was critical of the government but it's really hard to argue that he didn't do anything against the law. Maybe he should have whistleblower protection but his case isn't as simple as persecution solely for being critical of the government which is what this thread seems to be about.

[Jochim]

My point wasn't the treatment of Snowden but rather that the claim that:

> Inside the USA? The rules are far more clear.

Is false. The NSA was/is carrying out a mass spying operation over a number of years and involving hundreds of people that directly contravenes those rules.

[thebooktocome]

> The rules are far more clear.

Can you clarify this? As far as I'm aware, the US govt can dispute anyone's citizenship without recourse, even if you're holding e.g., a valid passport.

From 2016: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635...

As far as I know, nothing in this article has changed.

[TMWNN]

>Can you clarify this? As far as I'm aware, the US govt can dispute anyone's citizenship without recourse, even if you're holding e.g., a valid passport.

Your cite does not support your claim. If Palma had ever had a US passport (expired or not), his situation would never have occurred in the first place.

[orbifold]

If you piss off the US enough you will become suicidal in a Spanish prison.

[jwr]

> But not because some government official suddenly decided they should

You mean like this guy, for example? https://www.npr.org/2020/12/11/945565473/u-s-clears-for-rele...

Or the (by now, likely in the thousands) people killed by US drone attacks?

I don't want to play the whataboutism card, but let's not pretend that the US is somehow exceptional here. In fact, I'd consider it one of the more troubling countries, with the kindappings, Guantanamo, and the "grey area" on the borders, where your constitutional rights do not apply.

The world is not a nice place, and the US is no exception, unfortunately.

[MattGaiser]

The USA is exceptional in that that stuff does not happen to citizens within its borders.

[Aeolos]

Is that really the case?

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

"Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733

According to this ^, the police in the US is 3.5x more likely to kill civilians compared to other developed nations. (It would be interesting to find a world-wide comparison here.)

[Leparamour]

>"Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police."

These soundbytes usually (intentionally) omit half of the story. For example, how many police officers are being killed in encounters with black men?

And how many less lethal (for black men) encounters would there be with black men not attacking officers or third persons but actually complying with police orders?

The greatest danger to a black person's life only second to coronary diseases is another black person.

It's these kind of questions which grievance studies activists and journalists never (dare to) ask.

[Aeolos]

You are being downvoted because you failed to do bring any evidence to support your assertions and instead resorted to conspiratorial thinking.

Unlike your claim that "journalist never (dare to) ask", the numbers of violence against police are well studied, published and easily available with a search. Had you done that, you'd have realized that your basic premise is wrong: violence _by_ police is significantly higher than violence _against_ police.

Indeed, police work is _less_ dangerous than e.g. farming, construction, trucking and sales.

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfar0020.pdf

Edit: if you are interested, check also this https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-23/how-da...

Logging, fishing, aircraft, roofing, recycling, even landscaping is more dangerous than police work in terms of fatalities. Yet you don't hear politicians complain about the dangers of landscaping work, do you? Why do you think is that?

[arthur_sav]

Of course not.

They'll just fabricate lies, label you a terrorist or a "Russian spy" and put you in prison.