[oblio]

Well, to revive this conversation.

States have access to "a monopoly of legitimate violence". We grant them that in order for them to be able to keep the peace, you know, law and order.

Everything else can be boiled down to this. No matter how many bits of encryption keys are used, someone with a chloroform infused rag and a wrench can visit any of us at any moment. And it's actually part of what we, collectively, as citizens, have granted as a power to the state.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

I might be too influenced with Brazil I watched recently, but the monopoly on necessary violence is not without restrictions ( which is why there is an outcry when the outer bands are pushed too far ). Granted, the fact is that the bands are now hidden from public view only to resurface when a whistleblower lets the population know. Still, basic principle remains. There are limits to violence goverment can legitimately engage in.

[netr0ute]

> someone with a chloroform infused rag and a wrench can visit any of us at any moment

That's where engineering comes into play, maybe materials science to build suitable systems to defend against such physical attacks. And, you can't just ban engineering.

[ben_w]

Unless I become Robert Johansson[0], my imagination and capacity for material engineering is not going to be enough to simultaneously have a life and protect against a single sufficiently motivated individual, let alone a nation state putting a lawful (by its standards) order against me.

I’m only even safe from nutcases because the nation collectively has enough experience dealing with people who think they know better.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_E._Taylor

[goodpoint]

> someone with a chloroform infused rag and a wrench can visit any of us at any moment.

Phrased like this it sounds like you are implying that the legal system in any EU country has no power over goons with wrenches, and everybody is effectively living in a police state. Why even bothering to pass laws around encryption?