[bullen]

In a 100 years the main languages used will still be C on the client (with a C++ compiler) and Java on the server.

Go has no VM but it has a GC. WASM has a VM but no GC.

Eveything has been tried and Java still kicks everythings ass to the moon on the server.

Fragmentation is bad, lets stop using bad languages and focus on the products we build instead.

"While I'm on the topic of concurrency I should mention my far too brief chat with Doug Lea. He commented that multi-threaded Java these days far outperforms C, due to the memory management and a garbage collector. If I recall correctly he said "only 12 times faster than C means you haven't started optimizing"." - Martin Fowler https://martinfowler.com/bliki/OOPSLA2005.html

"Many lock-free structures offer atomic-free read paths, notably concurrent containers in garbage collected languages, such as ConcurrentHashMap in Java. Languages without garbage collection have fewer straightforward options, mostly because safe memory reclamation is a hard problem..." - Travis Downs https://travisdowns.github.io/blog/2020/07/06/concurrency-co...

[skohan]

I'm sorry is this comment from 1998? I've been working in software for over a decade, and I haven't seen server work being done in Java in ages.

From my perspective, Go in the context of serverless programming seems to currently be the best choice for server-side programming.

In the next 20 years I expect Go will be supplanted by a language which is a lot like go (automatic memory management, simple, easy to learn & write and performant enough) but with the addition of algebraic data types, named parameters, and a slightly higher level of abstraction.

[valbaca]

> In the next 20 years I expect Go will be supplanted by a language which is a lot like go (automatic memory management, simple, easy to learn & write and performant enough) but with the addition of algebraic data types, named parameters, and a slightly higher level of abstraction.

I'd love for this to be Crystal: https://crystal-lang.org/

> I haven't seen server work being done in Java in ages.

In the meantime, I've been doing a large amount of Java backend server work for the past 10 years.

[skohan]

I have a feeling it's going to have C-like syntax and frankly I hope so because using an `end` keyword instead of braces makes no sense to me.

[filleduchaos]

Arguably using curly braces to delineate blocks makes no inherent sense either. We just do it because that's what everybody else does.

[skohan]

So if I can give my extremely pedantic rebuff: `end` is 3 characters rather than two with `{}` - that's objectively more work to type, and it makes your programs take more space on disk.

Also it's dead simple to write parsers and developer tools which can match open and close braces. Handling `end` with an arbitrary opening token (maybe it's `if <...>`, `while <...>` what have you) is objectively more work for your CPU to work with.

Subjectively, it looks dumb to have code which looks like this:

            end
          end
        end
      end
    end
  end

[bullen]

Infinite growth does not exist, everything peaks at some point. You have to wonder if a memory model from 2005 still kicks go's ass in 2021 how your your prediction that "there will always be something new and shiny to distract us from the focus we need to leverage the real value of the internet" will play out?

What have you built with go that is interesting?

[skohan]

It's not about new and shiny. Programming is still a relatively new field when compared to other fields. For instance, mathematics and physics took centuries to land on the right way to formalize things.

C is maybe the only good programming language invented so far. Java was a failed attempt at improving C. I think we're rapidly converging on the second good programming language, and it's not going to have null pointer exceptions.

[pjmlp]

And I haven't seen server work done in C++ since 2006, we keep replacing those systems with Java and .NET ones.

To each its own.

[mbrodersen]

I have seen new server work being done in C++ every year the last 10 years. So yes we all have different experiences.

[pphysch]

Pretty sure Java is/was popular (and has enormous momentum) because "it just works" at a time when the Internet is taking off, not because it is some linguistic or technological marvel. It will definitely stick around, just like COBOL and C and Go.

[bullen]

COBOL is not around in anything interesting, and trust me go is not going to be used to build anything that we'll use in 20 years.

[ithkuil]

I agree that C is not going to die soon.

But don't dismiss Go so easily; it hits an interesting sweet spot that may not go away any time soon. It's a simple language with a simple spec, so simple that people are complaining it's too simple a language, yet also simple to use thanks to the GC. But also compiled and fast enough.

But most important of all, it's memory safe and not plagued by undefined behaviour.

Soon (already?) security will mean real money and life or death situation for companies; keeping that much code in a language where nobody can promise a memory corruption will not be introduced in the next commit, is eventually not going to be considered acceptable anymore.

yes, Go is sponsored by a mega corp, yes, and some people cringe at that, but realistically it's less a walled garden than c#, swift or stuff like that.

Rust is likely going to fill the niche currently occupied by C++ but it's quite hard to learn and use.

So yes, it's quite possible that we'll all flock to something new and shiny in 10 years time and forget Go before 20 years have passed. But, whatever replaces Go needs to fill its niche, which if you think about it doesn't have that much free design space left; yes you can improve a few things here and there, but then you have to fight with the massive code base and libraries, that stays relevant due to the absolutely fantastic backward compatibility promises. I've seen C code rot due to compilers getting "better" over time (yes, sure, the C code in question was obviously "wrong", but nobody noticed, because writing correct C code is an exercise in divination)

[pjmlp]

Rust still has lots to catch up regarding replacing C++ in compiler toolchains, GUI frameworks, game engines middleware and console SDKs, GPGPU, Machine Learning frameworks, HFT, HPC, ....

It is now where C++ was in the early-1990's.

[mbrodersen]

The world banking system is running on COBOL. Perhaps not “interesting” for you but without it pretty much everything would stop working.

[pphysch]

Do I hear "containers are a temporary fad"?

[bullen]

Yep

[butterisgood]

That’s like, just your opinion man.