[abrokenpipe]

Thanks, I had a feeling that is what they were talking about but wasn't positive. That seems like a selfish stance to have, and also ironic considering the ideologies behind universal healthcare.

How much money even gets spent on medical bills for bikers who choose not to wear helmets? If everyones personal lifestyle choices now have a monetary impact on each other, then how much intervention does this justify? Should people be forced to eat healthy and exercise? Obesity cost the healthcare system significantly more than motorcycle injuries. Alcohol, candy, cigarettes, even OTC drugs have a huge cost on the healthcare system, should those be illegal? What about mental health? Should people be prevented from doing anything considered "health threatening" out of the fear they may cost tax payers money?

Also should people be allowed to opt-out of a universal healthcare system and be exempt from lifestyle regulations?

[zbuf]

Its not all about healthcare costs. Consider the mental impact of being involved in an accident where the other person was killed.

[stkdump]

What is selfish about regulating some things that otherwise put a burden on society and have almost no upside for the individual if not regulated? Even if they and their families pay the highest cost for their stupidity, this doesn't mean there is no case for regulation.

[abrokenpipe]

You don't even know if they have families/dependents, and people should be allowed to make their own choices regardless. If you are concerned about the burden of taking care of others then you should criticize universal healthcare rather than try to dictate peoples lives. Don't bring those liabilities into your life if you are unwilling to deal with them.

[jobigoud]

It's a complicated and interesting debate. In places where we have universal healthcare we want to simultaneously provide coverage for everyone and allow the maximum freedom possible, but these goals are somewhat conflicting. We still think universal healthcare is of paramount importance for the well being of the group, so it takes the priority. This means reckless behavior can be frowned upon, smoking discouraged and seat belts enforced.

From my european pov I've always felt universal healthcare would never work in the US due to this focus on individual freedom over almost anything else.