[test_epsilon]

What evidence is there that it is helpful? What measurable improvements is it responsible for?

I don't agree any of those things should be taught in 3rd-5th grade because I think it is much more important to exercise the fundamentals of critical and creative thinking, logic, imagination, etc. at those ages.

I also have a big problem at any level of schooling with these unscientific and unproven "theories" (if you can even call them that) being taught by people who have entirely bought into the cult thinking and have no ability to critically reason about them let alone the desire to.

Would lessons about socialism and collectivism teach why the system can generally only sustain itself at a state level by devolving into a single party police state dictatorship in which the people most certainly do not own the means of production? Doubtful.

Would the teaching of CRT expose it for the unproven religious-like propaganda that it is? Or would it teach the horrific hurtful and racist pseudoscientific lies about toxic whiteness or children bearing some responsibility for things done by other people due to their race? Probably the latter, right?

It's like inviting a white supremacist to teach children lessons about nazism. Or a creationist to teach biology. Or a flat earther to each geology. Not a helpful lens at all.

[woofie11]

> I don't agree any of those things should be taught in 3rd-5th grade because I think it is much more important to exercise the fundamentals of critical and creative thinking, logic, imagination, etc. at those ages.

That's exactly how you develop it. You teach complex concepts which require kids to sort truth from fiction. You don't teach one. You teach many.

> I also have a big problem at any level of schooling with these unscientific and unproven "theories" (if you can even call them that) being taught by people who have entirely bought into the cult thinking and have no ability to critically reason about them let alone the desire to.

I agree.

> Would lessons about socialism and collectivism teach why the system can generally only sustain itself at a state level by devolving into a single party police state dictatorship in which the people most certainly do not own the means of production? Doubtful.

You're generalizing an awful lot from n=1. We had the Soviet Block. That's the only time it's been tried. It'd be like evaluating liberal democracy from the French Revolution or the current collapsing Afghani government.

> It's like inviting a white supremacist to teach children lessons about nazism. Or a creationist to teach biology. Or a flat earther to each geology. Not a helpful lens at all.

I teach my kid those alternative theories too. I do a sincere job of it too. He doesn't believe me, in part due to other adults in his life.

[test_epsilon]

> That's exactly how you develop it.

I disagree.

> You teach complex concepts which require kids to sort truth from fiction. You don't teach one. You teach many.

And there are many. Take away nazism, flat eartherism, and CRT, and there are still many. Many more interesting useful and fruitful things to teach at that age.

For sure teach them to beware of said charlatans and snake oil peddlers, but there's really no need to spend any amount of time on the bullcrap they believe. There are countless unscientific cult beliefs like this, you're going to pollute your child's mind with all of them when they are like 8-10 years old??

> You're generalizing an awful lot from n=1.

I'm not, I'm talking about the basic human nature behind it (and resulting in not only CPSU but CPC, and WPK, CPK, etc.) But I'm not here to litigate the merits of socialism so much as to say it's unproven and unscientific at best. Looks like snake oil no matter how you look at it -- promises to be all things to all people, and has no proven results behind it and arguably many spectacular failures.

> I teach my kid those alternative theories too. I do a sincere job of it too. He doesn't believe me, in part due to other adults in his life.

That doesn't mean it's good for your kid though. An if it is, you're the one generalizing an awful lot from n=1.

[woofie11]

I don't actually know how my child will learn to recognize charlatans and snake oil peddlers unless he learns many contradicting theories, has to sort through that, and gain experience doing exactly this.

The one place where we tend to confuse ourselves is that we're charlatans and snake oil peddlers too. We all hold countless unscientific cult beliefs, some individually, and some by virtue of being embedded in a given historical and cultural context. Those are embedded in EVERY cultural and historical context. Anything you teach your kid might be snake oil, and I have enough of an open mind to know I might be wrong.

Ergo, I don't have a problem with teaching kids things which are wrong, so much as with the cult-like way in which schools teach many concepts like CRT, or the right-wing equivalents.

[test_epsilon]

So, you want to teach your kid all kinds of hateful weird cult theories from a young age. That's incredibly weird and almost nobody else would think that's a good idea, so I really can't see how you can possibly think you can speak with total authority on the matter ("that is exactly how you develop it", etc.).

You are firmly an N=1 case here. I'm not going to argue the merits of your teaching ideas any more because it's clear you believe in them, but if you don't realize your ideas are pretty extreme and fringe, then you should.

[woofie11]

I'm not sure I'd call flat earth or a geocentric model hateful, but if you think so, more power to you.