[benjaminwootton]

I’ve never really gotten this argument. People can go really deep on Terraform, Cloud Automation, CI/CD, containerisation etc without being developers or sysadmins.

“DevOps Engineer” fits that role perfectly in spite of the breaking-down-siloes goodness.

[jpswade]

The DevOps tool chain has become so complex that it requires specialist roles that create knowledge silos.

The goal of DevOps was to remove those gates and silos. It was meant to be about skills over roles.

All we appear to have done is change the tools and role from that of a SysAdmin to DevOps engineer.

[igetspam]

Then you're doing it wrong. My teams have two components that require review from a specific group:

1. Core infra

2. Anything related to security

Outside of those, we all can and do work on everything else. We regularly coach people in terraform and third party APIs to endure they understand that they own their application lifecycle. They control the entire SDLC and we work together to ensure sanity. There are lots of bumps but nobody gets a pass on understanding the in and outs of software development and management. I can't see a cloud based offering being successful without that.

[jpswade]

So you have a DevOps team?

Who is doing what wrong, according to whom?

[zarzavat]

This is just the same as when people complain that computers are getting slower even though the hardware is faster.

Software complexity expands to fill available resources. Only, in this case the available resources are manpower rather than hardware.