[jamestnz]

I stumbled upon an unusual policy when trying to order from B&H the first time. They are not open for business on Shabbat (NYC local time), and this includes their online checkout!

I could fill up my cart, but had to come back later to do my purchase.

[nanidin]

It's a bit strange because if you go to actual Israel, there are ways around Shabbat rules that align with the Torah/Talmud. For example, on Shabbat, there is an elevator that stops at every floor (so no one has to push the button).

It's also my understanding that it's kosher for gentiles to perform actions outside of the constraints of the rules of Judaism, like turning on/off fans on behalf of those respecting the rules of the sabbath.

[amscanne]

> there are ways around Shabbat rules that align with the Torah/Talmud

As with any religious practices, there’s a wide spectrum of how people follow or don’t follow the doctrine. There’s no shortage of Rabbis who have haggled over the fine details of how they apply to modern society, like your elevator example.

Personally, I like the idea of aligning and adapting the general intent as opposed to rule hacking, and it’s neat to leave that cultural stamp on the business (at some cost, I’m sure).

[TchoBeer]

Woah, I did not know B&H was an orthodox institution! That's quite neat.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Very much so.

It’s an amazing retail space. They have this awesome overhead rail system for delivering goods, and their checkout resembles customs at an airport (a bit disconcerting).

[xvector]

True. B&H is sort of unusual in this regards, but from what I hear their employees are treated well, and the lack of tax is well worth it!

[cfqycwz]

Fwiw there has been some history of B&H workers being treated fairly not-well. I encourage reading past the first few paragraphs of this article as it's not all "union stuff"--there are lawsuits, DOL complaints, and OSHA fines as well:

https://gothamist.com/news/bh-photo-workers-strike-on-may-da...

[ixtli]

Thank you for pointing this out. I live in the area and showed up for the pickets when they fired all of their warehouse employees for complaining about unsafe working conditions.

If possible use Adorama or some competitor.

[xvector]

Interesting, thank you!

[spoonjim]

Note that B&H has been sued for discriminating against its non-Jewish employees:

https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/new-lawsuit-claims-b-and-h-disc...

[xvector]

That's horrible. Thanks for letting me know!

[vtail]

Could you please clarify what do you think is horrible? Anyone can sue anyone in the US, for any reason, and allege a lot of bad things. It also true that cost of litigation is often much, much higher than a settlement - e.g. the 3 employee suing asked for $200k in damages, which I assume is just an opening offer. A reasonable lawyer can easily cost upwards of $500/hr, and require many, many hours of work even if the process never gets to the court.

My close friend is been sued for ridiculous reasons by ex-partners. It already costed him $750k in legal fees,and although he is very likely to win the case, it’s expected to take another 2 years before the case is resolved, at which point he will be allowed to file for recovering his costs (easily anothe couple of years).

[Rantenki]

It's not a mere allegation, they lost a similar suit about hispanic employees, and had a HUGE settlement ruling against them: https://www.eeoc.gov/newsroom/eeoc-and-b-h-reach-43-million-...

They've been proven to discriminate, in a court of law. I'd give this new lawsuit the benefit of the doubt.

[vtail]

Thank you, this is important context I was not aware of, although to be fair, these events happened 10 years prior to the new case.

[DetroitThrow]

>Could you please clarify what do you think is horrible [about an employee discrimination lawsuit]?

I wonder why so many forum users frame statements they want to make as questions which challenge innocent comments.

[gilrain]

There is a term for it: JAQing off. Just Asking Questions. It's used to put forward a distasteful argument without actually standing behind it.

As in, "Why are you getting heated? I'm not condoning [whatever], I'm just asking questions."

[frereubu]

A friend of mine worked with some Plymouth Brethren who wouldn't use computers, but had a stationery company. They employed someone else to build them a website and run it, then print out the orders and hand them over. I've not heard of a religious order that didn't even want to allow people outside the order to "break" the rules. Although perhaps it's something about money ending up in their bank account?

[wyldfire]

I respect people's religions but adherence to constraints like these -- to the extent that the automatons cannot even work -- are silly.

[neilv]

IIUC, it's a religious/cultural observance that's very important to them, I think a kind of reminder. I'd say respecting that means respecting that.

Also, I loved B&H when I was seriously into photography, and even if the closed days had been a practical inconvenience (they weren't, IME), it would've still been worthwhile.

Speculating... Maybe something in the culture of dutiful adherence also helped them to provide such well-respected service at great prices? Diversity is good.

[fmajid]

They used to do transactions on Shabbat, then they stopped, presumably the Satmar Hasidic rabbi must have issued a ruling that it wasn’t allowed.

Sure, it’s a minor annoyance, but compare that with the nontheistic amorality of Amazon and their everything-goes train wreck of a marketplace (worse than eBay at its worst) and you’ll understand why I only buy my computers, electronics and photo gear from B&H.

[sombremesa]

Well, the website being up and somewhat usable means the automatons are working. Makes this policy even more nonsensical.

[vincnetas]

Let's take this to extreme. Commandment "Thou shalt not kill", would it be ok to let automatons kill instead of you and this would not be considered sin? (playing devils advocate)

[Qwertious]

Building (and activating) a machine that's designed to kill, obviously violates the "thou shalt not kill" and makes you an attempted murderer the moment you activate it. But the actual moment of killing? You're literally not doing that (you could be sleeping or have forgotten about the machine, at the moment it first kills).

Similarly, building the e-commerce machine obviously can't be done on the sabbath, but if it's already running then you're not actually working.

For example, suppose you push a rock off a huge cliff. If the rock tumbles for a full week after you push it, were you pushing it off a cliff for the full week (including the sabbath)? Or did you only push it the one time on a tuesday?

[taneq]

If the ONLY reason you're not killing people is the fifth of the Ten Commandments then we have bigger issues than "are sentry turrets OK".

[fortran77]

You can't say you respect my religion and then call me silly at the same time. Perhaps you're the one that's silly.

[hanche]

I think respect is for people, not religions. I don’t even know what it means to respect a religion, unless you adhere to it. Respect for people includes respecting their right to practice their religion, even if you think it is silly. That respect also means you don’t go out of your way to point fingers and laugh at every opportunity, but not the obligation to keep your opinion secret either. Due respect can be a difficult balancing act sometimes.

[tomc1985]

Silliness and respect are mutually exclusive?