[zorrolovsky]

I agree with others that a new business model for search is refreshing. But... for a privacy-oriented service, Neeva is doing a poor job in earning my trust.

I spent some minutes in their website and all I could find are vague promises and grandiose marketing-speak. Where's the evidence and the technical detail? Where are the privacy experts, data experts and engineers impressing me with the robustness, openness and cleverness of their system?

Mullvad, for example, excels at explaining how their privacy service works. They transparently explain how they designed a systen with privacy at the core and they're open in their processes and code. They're also independently audited. That's why I trust them.

Neeva, on the other hand, focusses on promises and not evidence. Also, when you scratch the surface they no longer seem so privacy-friendly.

Just compare the privacy policies of both companies and make your own judgement about who is truly privacy-oriented or not:

https://neeva.com/privacy https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#numbered https://mullvad.net/en/help/privacy-policy/

In regards to Neeva's positioning as 'private search', I don't think they have their architecture right. The best privacy-oriented services are keen on NOT knowing users. Neeva seems keen on getting their hands on all sorts of data. For users: Create an account, send payment data, sync with documents, email, calendars, etc. For users and non-users: automatic hoarding of IP, user settings, location, etc.

[Zachsa999]

I digress. I thought this was a good idea, a good product at the outset. I hate scrolling through all the ads etc.

However. After reading the comments I decided to keep my wallet in my pocket. Is this good enough, was I supposed to think up the skepticism when I discovered the product?

[zorrolovsky]

> was I supposed to think up the skepticism when I discovered the product?

It's always good to be a bit skeptic. But please don't put too much pressure on yourself.

The reason why I see red flags is because I spent a lot of time learning about what makes a good privacy product and created my own framework to evaluate services. But most people don't have the time to do that, and need to trust what they're being told.

In other words, I don't think the problem is your lack of skepticism or technical knowledge about privacy. That's perfectly reasonable and normal. The problem is that companies blatantly lie, exploit users and do shady businesses, and they get away with it with repugnant impunity. If they were sevely punished and scrutinized when they do shady business of feed lies to people we would have a more trustable ecosystem.

In my ideal world, when a company like Neeva launches with such grandiose statements, they would get analyzed and scrutinized by experts, who will publish findings in a simple English format. If their statements were incorrect, they would be held accountable and punished. For example they would have to remove the 'privacy-oriented' crap from their website and just position themselves as another search engine.

[killingtime74]

We live in a post evidence world

[zorrolovsky]

Very interesting comment! Any ideas on what are we supposed to do in this world? I keep on thinking we need to take a step back, come back to evidence and logic and make things right. But deep inside I know that's not going to happen. In the post-evidence world, it's too easy for people without moral to grab power and benefit. That is, it makes it easier for those in power to grab more power. That's why things will remain the same for a while.

Is the solution to simply smile and carry on? Is it time for a (non-violent) revolution?

[killingtime74]

All we can do is call it out and fight back by being skeptical and asking for evidence. Hopefully we’ll prevail