[zozbot234]

> These practices are done because it works.

Which practices, though? A number of the practices you note (e.g. streamlined signup flow) are not user hostile at all, and others are a mixed bag. (E.g. one could argue that AMP + a properly featured mobile site and 'official' app were necessary steps with a subpar implementation). But when looking specifically at the dark patterns that power users are most likely to complain about, it's unclear that they would help DAU/MAU much, if at all. Casual users might not complain overtly all that much, but they're almost certainly discouraged by many such practices.

[411111111111111]

> streamlined signup flow

It was more streamlined before. You literally only had to input a username and any password, no policies, email or anything else you had to adhere to/provide.

I stopped using reddit back then after using it several hours daily for years, so not every power user ignored these changes

[minsc__and__boo]

Sign up flows serve more purposes than just a funnel for new users (which IMO is part of a problem with how we build websites in general, but I digress).

Anti-scam/fraud account identification can rely heavily on inputs up front. I'm honestly surprised reddit went so long without requiring other inputs, despite their rising popularity.

[x0x0]

And account recovery.

People get real sad when you have to tell them that if they forgot a password, their account is simply gone. Email fixes that.

[PragmaticPulp]

> But when looking specifically at the dark patterns that power users are most likely to complain about, it's unclear that they would help DAU/MAU much, if at all. Casual users might not complain overtly all that much, but they're almost certainly discouraged by many such practices.

Power users of sites like Reddit are already hooked. They’re already logged in, already have an app installed, and they don’t see all of the nags and pop-ups that appear to users who aren’t logged in.

It’s the unregistered users and those who aren’t logged in who have to suffer the nags and pop-ups and limitations. And as the site constantly reminds them, they can fix the problem by downloading the app and joining the ranks of trackable users.

When a website makes their money from advertising, user metrics are king. The more app installs, DAUs, and unique registered users you can show, the more money you can collect from advertisers. Advertisers would rather show their ad once to 1000 people than 100 times to 10 people. They want to use unique user counts, not just guesses based on volatile IP address, to support that.

As a result, it’s more beneficial for a company to alienate 1 user who won’t register (and therefore won’t contribute to metrics) in exchange for gaining 1 other user who will register. If I had to guess, I suspect Reddit is gaining more like 10 or more users for every 1 user who is alienated.

The unfortunate reality is that when it comes to free sites and services, power users (who generally install ad blockers or have been trained to ignore ads) can cost more than they bring in revenue. It’s the casual users who don’t have ad blockers and don’t have any aversion to ads that ultimately bring the revenue.

[zozbot234]

> It’s the unregistered users and those who aren’t logged in who have to suffer the nags and pop-ups and limitations.

The problem with this strategy is that it's easy to add so many nags that many more users will bounce away from the site than will install the app, or otherwise engage at all. Given what we know about user behavior on the Internet, Reddit is almost certainly on the downward slope of this weird Laffer curve, well beyond the point of "optimally effective" nagging. Add even more, and you become just another Experts-Exchange that no one cares about all that much.

[PragmaticPulp]

> Given what we know about user behavior on the Internet, Reddit is almost certainly on the downward slope of this weird Laffer curve, well beyond the point of "optimally effective" nagging.

If your internet bubble is largely composed of power users who have such a deep disdain for pop-ups that they will refuse to engage with this sites, you might think that.

But looking at Reddit's growth numbers lately, it appears their gamble has clearly paid off.

The key to understanding this is this: Mass-market, advertising-supported websites don't cater to picky power users. They cater to whoever they can get to sign up. If someone refuses to use a site because they refuse to sign up or install the app, then that's a positive, not a negative, for their numbers. They only want the users who will accept the conditions of the website.

[raverbashing]

True

Except it's the power users are the ones that "make Reddit". They share the links and add comments

I think even the lurker/commenter ratio is something like 10x (can't remember where I saw this so I can be wrong)

But sure, the number of users go up. Until it doesn't.

[wting]

Features are only launched after running a successful experiment.

We try to appeal to power users when possible. For example with the current signup flow has optional emails, though intentionally non-obvious.

This means new users sign up with an email which means we can reduce churn through digests and also reset passwords / prevent account takeovers, a large burden for Reddit's anti spam teams.

[jackson1442]

Yep. People, even power users, are generally surprised when I say you don’t need an email after making a comment like “reddit went downhill when they started requiring an email address.”

[gentleman11]

Non obvious? It’s deliberately hidden. Its utterly dishonest. Thanks for mentioning it I’m just annoyed by user interfaces copying human choice and manipulating people. It goes way beyond “disrespectful” and should be illegal

[ghosty141]

Sorry but I have to side with reddit here. He said it's aimed at power users for whom it doesn't matter that it's hidden because they know how to use this feature.

It's advantageous for Reddit to have accounts with emails, why shouldn't they incentivise users to supply them during the registration process? It's their website nonetheless.

[asddubs]

yeah that particular one seems a bit weird to complain about when basically every other website has mandatory emails

[kevin_thibedeau]

There is an artificial delay on mobile page loads to steer you into using the app. You are bombarded with deceptive popups to install the app. They supposedly run a website. They should focus on that and stop acting like it's 2010.

[irateswami]

It's about pumping up engagement metrics, pure and simple, regardless of the quality of the user experience.

Any and all social media is poison.