[Manuel_D]

It seems like this engineering residency program is essentially an extended internship, which converts to a full time role if the worker does well. Google searches say residents are paid ~$95k a year. This is by no means bad pay for entry level work.

I'm really struggling to see the injustice of this program. It seems to me that axing it only leaves the people who used this role as a stepping stone to reach a full time role with no opportunity to get their foot in the door.

[tdeck]

That was my impression as well. The eng residency program is intended as an entry point for those who aren't yet qualified for Google's entry level engineering positions. It's a kind of apprenticeship. I have heard (but can't confirm) that folks are sometimes invited to apply for residency after not passing an ordinary engineering interview. I also got the impression that there are strong incentives to always convert residents at the end of their residency. I have had limited experience with residents on the job so I can't really comment on their qualifications.

[maxcan]

I'm pretty sure that I agree with you, but if I had to steelman the argument against Eng Res it would be that since pay and promotion seems to follow percentage increments year to year, if you start at a lower point than someone else, you are going to be consistently behind them. So, having this program essentially creates a second class of engineer at google, predominantly URMs, who will be given lower pay and lower prestige assignments.

Personally, I don't buy this because the alternative is not that these Eng Residents would have been given entry level roles at google with the commensurate pay and benefits but rather no role at google.

[crow_bow]

Made an HN account to respond to this. I was in the Eng Res program, and that's not how it worked.

When you converted to being a regular SWE, they gave you a BIG pay bump -- comparable to a new-grad starting salary, but rather higher than average. My comp the year after Eng Res was higher by 20-40% than my friends who started at Google right out of school.

[wheelinsupial]

“Nearly all residents converted to regular employees, according to the presentation. Many alumni years later have continued to feel the “negative effect” of their starting pay on their current salary, it said.” Quoted from the article.

Are you an outlier in the pay increase?

[maxcan]

Thanks for clarifying. My thinking above was speculative and it appears even my steel man point was pretty weak.

[bsder]

> since pay and promotion seems to follow percentage increments year to year

So ... leave?

Put a couple years of FAANG on your resume to bootstrap and then bail out to the job that pays correctly. That's what everybody has to do to keep their salary from lagging.

If the analysis only includes those who haven't bailed at least once, it's for sure going to have lagging salaries.

A more interesting question would be what those who bailed and then came back to Google are making.

[toast0]

I don't know how Google does their salary, but a lot of big corps do salary bands by level, and when the 2x a year (one of which might not be advertised) company adjustments come up, they determine merit based rases and then adjust to try to tighten the bands. So if you're underpaid, you'll probably get a bigger raise than otherwise and if you're overpaid, your raise will be adjusted down.

You might not ever catch up to someone who started higher (and certainly won't for the integral of compensation), but the gap should narrow over time.

[desertedisland]

I once went out with a nurse in the UK who worked in palliative (end of life) care. On a daily basis she was responsible for life-changing decisions concerning medications; she had to comfort the dying and tell bereaved people that their relatives had died (frequently ending up in tears herself); she had to give bed baths and clean up human waste daily. She had to undertake continuous training and assessment with her career at risk if she failed; she did not know more than a week in advance what shifts she would be working which on any given day could start at 6am or 9pm (and go through to 4am the next day).

For all of this she was paid £25,000 (USD 35,000) / year.

The injustice is that software engineers and the tech sector in general are being so insanely rewarded as most of the rest of society stagnates and living standards fall (I say this as an insanely rewarded software engineer).

This will not end well.

[qq4]

Software engineers are rewarded what the market demands, not some prize because they're seen as better for humanity than nurses. Some would argue the field of nursing has a lower bar to entry than software development.