[wizzard]

Very well said.

Consider how people like to say they have OCD because they think it’s just “liking to be clean”. Most people like things to be clean, right? So anyone could be diagnosed with OCD on a bad day, couldn’t they? No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. When you see a person who is actually diagnosed with OCD, it becomes really clear that none of these other jokers have it.

The problem with ADHD is that instead of hand washing or checking doors or other very unusual rituals, it mostly just looks like laziness to a casual observer.

[robocat]

> No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life.

OCD is merely a label for a cluster of symptoms. It says nothing about the cause. The same can be said for the majority of psychiatric diagnoses afaik.

E.g. “Doctors aren’t sure why some people have OCD.” - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-dis...

E.g. 2: OCD can be a symptom of a strep infection and nothing to do with brain chemistry. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/pandas/

[borski]

While we don’t know the exact cause of OCD or ADHD, physically, we do have research that describes correlations. Particularly for ADHD, we know certain areas of the brain that control executive function are generally smaller in people with ADHD. We also know that they generally have lower levels of certain brain chemicals, and we have learned far more about it through radioactive isotope examination of the brain as well.

For OCD: Research suggests that OCD involves problems in communication between the front part of the brain and deeper structures of the brain. These brain structures use a neurotransmitter (basically, a chemical messenger) called serotonin. Pictures of the brain at work also show that, in some people, the brain circuits involved in OCD become more normal with either medications that affect serotonin levels (serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SRIs) or cognitive behavior therapy (CBT).

Just because we don’t know the precise cause doesn’t mean we cannot, in the meantime, help alleviate the symptoms for someone suffering from the syndrome (since we don’t know the precise cause).

Please don’t get in the way of this by implying people are “making it up,” because, simply, they are not. Both of these are extremely well studied syndromes, but really only in the last few decades.

[robocat]

> Just because we don’t know the precise cause doesn’t mean we cannot, in the meantime, help alleviate the symptoms for someone suffering from the syndrome (since we don’t know the precise cause).

I didn’t imply anything contrary to that.

> Please don’t get in the way of this by implying people are “making it up,” because, simply, they are not. Both of these are extremely well studied syndromes, but really only in the last few decades.

I didn’t imply people are making it up.

HN guidelines are “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.”.

I understand that you find it natural to jump to conclusions about what others think, but it really damages good discussion.

> correlations

Exactly - for many psychiatric symptoms the causes are not actually known -instead we just measure a bunch of complicated things and try to read the tea leaves.

[wizzard]

You didn’t respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of the point I was making when you said strep can sometimes cause OCD symptoms.

[tailspin2019]

The presumption here seems to be that just because we don't know the cause of a condition, the condition is less "valid"?

[robocat]

Sorry, I really did not mean to give that impression, and I do not trivialise mental health issues.

There is a hell of a lot of bullshit in psychology and psychiatry, sometimes to the point of abusing those they are supposed to help.

I do think that the beliefs like "my brain is wired wrong" or "it's a brain chemistry problem" are usually wrong for some conditions, and that those beliefs can be harmful because they discourage seeking less obvious solutions or solutions particular to the person.

Also you do not want unrealistic expectations of a "cure", or to encourage seeking of dangerous interventions.

The friends I have with mental health issues usually have another layer of strange personal beliefs, which doesn't help either!

It is a difficult topic to comment on, because people tend to be sensitive about it, for valid reasons.

[tailspin2019]

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with everything you've said and I realise that I may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say in your previous comment.

> It is a difficult topic to comment on, because people tend to be sensitive about it, for valid reasons.

It definitely is.

Having been recently diagnosed (via medical professionals) with ADHD, I've suddenly encountered for the first time what it's like to be on the other side of this.

I previously had a very misinformed idea of what ADHD (and related things like OCD) actually were. I wouldn't have trivialised them necessarily in words or conversation, but I definitely had a completely wrong understanding of the seriousness of these conditions. I didn't know what I didn't know.

The misconceptions about some of these conditions are so widespread that in my case, I've found it actively unhelpful in some cases to talk to many people in my life about it. Having done the research, I now understand much more about how my brain works and why some things are much harder for me than others, but trying to bridge the gap in this knowledge with others is really hard. Even those closest to me either view the diagnosis with suspicion (and I don't blame them for that if they have the same misconcieved idea about the condition that I did). Others just listen to me describing the problems I have and dismiss them (not intentionally) by saying things like "everyone has those problems"!

I've heard (perhaps even read on HN) that after being diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood you go through a bit of a grieving phase, in denial, then angry at medical professionals who didn't it spot it before, and then sadness at how your life might have been had you realised you had this condition much earlier. I'm in that phase now, and so the lack of understanding from others (which again, I don't blame them for) makes this all the more harder. I'm trying to reincorporate this new understanding into the "model" of myself that I've constructed over many years (without this important information) - it's tough and rather isolating.

So all of that said. I guess I'm likely to view a lot of discussion on this topic through my own specific lens, which is likely to make me overly sensitive to perceived "trivialisation".

It's interesting to recognise that I wouldn't have had this sensitivity at all only just a matter of weeks ago. It's funny how your outlook on things can change so significantly in a short space of time.

[derangedHorse]

Only if your only criteria for validity for a psychiatric evaluation is having a clear correlation between brain chemistry and the diagnosis. I think the parent comment is just trying to explore where the boundary lies between mental disorder and personality trait. Maybe some psychiatrists here on HN could help add to the discussion and we could all learn more from it.