[milkytron]

> Thus, understanding propaganda to guard yourself against it requires not only the use of sound and cogent logic and a set of facts, it requires being on guard against emotional responses.

This, I believe, is so important to living in the modern era of constant information and media consumption at our fingertips. Reading (or even participating in) arguments online is one thing I see a lot of. Tons of emotional responses with plenty of bias and assumptions being made. But those are pretty easy to avoid if you just don't get yourself involved and watch from the sidelines. Good arguments where both sides are participating in open discussion with facts, logic, and open minds are a pleasure. It's what drew me to HN years ago.

What isn't easy to avoid (at least for me), is the propaganda being regurgitated by those around me. One side of my family is very deep into conspiracy thinking. They have zero trust for the media, other than a single outlet which they listen and watch every day. When I see this side of the family, I listen to what they have to say, but they don't seem to have any taste for logic, facts, or reasoning. Open discussion is off the table unless it caters to what they want to hear or already believe. Any evidence to the contrary is dismissed and not believed. It seems to me like there is no way to get through to them, no way to open their minds, no way to propose viable alternatives to their thinking.

How does one go about opening the minds of those already deeply influenced by propaganda? I have their trust, they still come to me and voice their ideas, however farfetched they may seem. Even if they know I don't believe them, they still open discussion with me. But I cannot seem to find a way to engage in their arguments while involving reasoning.

p.s. This became a rant, but I do want to improve the communication between myself and this side of the family. I don't want to (and can't really) just cut them off, they are nice people that just happen to have some wild beliefs.

[scandox]

I am in a somewhat similar situation. I've come to the conclusion that the relationship, the human connection, keeping that open is the most important thing.

Some part of their brain knows that what they're into is deeply flawed but ultimately only they themselves can find their way out.

[foolinaround]

> How does one go about opening the minds of those already deeply influenced by propaganda? I have their trust, they still come to me and voice their ideas, however farfetched they may seem. Even if they know I don't believe them, they still open discussion with me. But I cannot seem to find a way to engage in their arguments while involving reasoning.

Maybe you can checkout their single source of information, and make them promise to checkout the other side too...

Both will benefit from checking out alternate sources that opine opposite to our current biases.

We will disagree with most of them, but then, one can basically find out what is factually true or not from a simple comparison, see which facts have been omitted in the reporting, and then make up their minds.

[skinkestek]

Adding to this:

- understand that in the others minds you are the one deeply influenced by propaganda.

- try to create a bridge, something you can a agree on.

- if the other person is a logical thinker you might apply to that. Even when you don't know who or what to trust you can go a step further. Example: The two identical twins in the intersection, one always lies, one always tells the truth. You need to know the way to Rome but you can only ask one question.

- be aware that sometimes it might be you who should cross the bridge. I've already done so anf it feels great afterwards.

[bgroat]

Honestly, the answer is gaslighting.

They trust you, they trust this source.

State the idea that you want them to believe, and then back it up with a manufactured argument from this source they trust.

They won't remember if it was ever said. They just know that they trust you, and they trust your source.

Use this power responsible.