[chewzerita]

> After that, I make sure I won't be carrying a pager that can ever "go off" in the middle of the night. That's a non-negotiable for me at this point in my career.

I'm currently in undergrad so starting my actual "career" still seems far enough off for me, but serious question how do people actually accept that? Will I have to accept that when I apply for junior/entry level positions? I don't think I'm asking too much if I want to have a full night sleep and a strong work/life divide. I might be a bit young and naive, but I hope I won't get comfortable with living at the beck and call of my employer. People are more than just their individual contribution to lining the pockets of their bosses, no?

[ev1]

It's entirely dependent. This is also partially why "do you have a good manager" is included. I've had a few that absolutely will be in the line of fire first, and not make their team do anything they wouldn't do themselves.

From experience: a good team/manager, when forced to do this, will often freely be first on call, give you a day off after if you had an incident at night or let you sleep in til noon or later without complaint, etc.

If you are European or similar country with better working conditions/employee laws, it will be less painful. IIRC, in US salaried tech employees can effectively have unlimited unpaid overtime as a specific exemption.

[chewzerita]

Good advice about managers, it sounds like it may take a while to settle down and find a team that fits. It's good that you have been able to find a manager and team that actually works as a, well, team.

> IIRC, in US salaried tech employees can effectively have unlimited unpaid overtime as a specific exemption.

Yeah I see that daily with my dad working from home. He works at a local newspaper (wait those still exist?) doing stuff with maps, datavis and page layout/design. He works probably twice the amount of hours he gets paid for early morning until late at night, and can never take time off even with his measly "paid vacation time" allotment. He somehow manages to trudge along, which is unimaginable to me. Generational difference? Or maybe I just don't have the full picture yet

[maxlamb]

It depends a lot on the company and specific role. As a junior person there is a higher chance that the position you apply for will require this kind of commitment but not all. Just make sure you ask during the interview process.

[kondu]

Unfortunately, you don't always know if on-call will be involved until you start at the job. Often many companies don't even hire you with a particular role in mind, instead you are matched to a team after you're signed on. (Especially for new grads). And sometimes on-call is introduced in an existing role, it can be difficult to refuse, especially for people in more junior roles.

But definitely ask about on-call when interviewing, in case they say they have it you can bail out before you sign.

[mancerayder]

I ask about it repeatedly to all interviewers to the point that some companies disqualify me. Call it a survivorship bias in reverse. It doesn't always work, amazingly, but it always sends a strong signal.