[krapp]

>I'm honestly more concerned about reducing >800 years of mythology to a filmed image of a photogenic dude with cheekbones and silly costumes than about questionable copyright claims.

Why? Most people will never have even heard of, much less care, about Loki or Norse mythology in any context until Marvel and Disney came along. Now far more people are aware of the mythological version through the popular version than ever.

Also, no one is attempting to replace the mythological Loki with the Marvel version, not even Disney is trying to burn copies of the Eddas or break carvings of Loki Taliban style. That's not even the only version of Loki that appears in modern pop culture.

Also, don't talk about cheekbones or silly costumes when this[0] is your template.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Processed_SAM_loki.jpg

[hugi]

As an Icelander, we are very aware of our heritage and mythology and I'd really prefer that it not be copyrighted by greedy American corporations.

[dragonwriter]

Fortunately for you, copyright doesn't work in a way which would allow that, so you are safe.

[runarberg]

As a fan of the stories from Norse Mythology, I’d argue that the MCU has done a great disservice. Thor for example is nothing like the mythology figure. In Norse Mythology Þór is not a good person, his violence is actually blamed for the fall of Ásgarðr. His stories most often revolve around his overdrinking and the troubles he gets into. I can’t remember a story where he actually does a good deed.

Previously I was able to tell people these stories and they would enjoy them for what they are. Now most people giggle at them because they can only think of the Marvel characters.

[bitwize]

Come on, you have to admit, when considering the Þrymskviða, the image of Þrymr pulling back the bridal veil to reveal Chris Hemsworth in a dress standing before him is pretty funny. At least I thought it so.

I like to look at the media depictions of these characters and compare them to their mythological counterparts. Disney's Hercules was ridiculous and a missed opportunity. But the way they depicted Maui was really, really good -- and when you consider that Maui is slightly different in every Polynesian culture that discussed him -- almost plausible as legitimate Polynesian mythology.

[ghaff]

For the most part, the majority of the pagan gods are not exactly nice people in the stories. Plenty of rape and killing relatives to go around. Not that the Old Testament Yahweh is exactly a shining role model either.

[crooked-v]

Also, while it's not so much in the "evil by modern standards" category, New Testament Jesus is often rendered benign and generically harmless by people who profess to be Christians but don't want to deal with any of the parts of his teachings that might inconvenience them.

[UnpossibleJim]

Most of the old stories/religions have been cleansed for the modern palette. For better or worse, I suppose it's bound to happen, religions have to evolve or suffer the fate of extinction. A little ironic =)

[quantified]

Nothing religious about Marvel, except Disney’s worship of Manna.

If there are any modern “pagan” worshippers of the traditional gods, I hope they’ve preserved the fundamental version. Probably closer to any truths.

[krapp]

There is no "fundamental" version of these myths. In many cases (particularly with Norse mythology) all we know is what was written down by Christian scribes, purposely redacted to fit a Christian worldview. Modern Neopagan ideologies necessarily have to differ because of the dearth of original sources from which to reconstruct the religion, and because neopaganism in modernity would be inextricably linked to modern political, cultural and moral norms (as any religion in any age would be.)

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopaganism_in_Scandinavia

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81satr%C3%BA

[runarberg]

Paganism is well and alive. It is the 5th most popular religious sect in Iceland (and the most popular non-christian sect; excluding atheism). I bet there are even people here on HN that know some people that are pagan.

I’m not exactly sure how they worship their gods, but I’ve heard there are some feasts and artwork dedicated to certain gods. In Iceland most people (even Christians and Atheists) attend a “Þorrablót” which is feasting in honor of Þór.

[UnpossibleJim]

You should go to a Comicon =)

When I speak of the old gods, I throw Yaweh (God or Allah depending on the sect) in there as well. A 5000 year old run counts as an old god in my book.

[ghaff]

Pre-MCU at least, Loki in particular had come to be seen as god of merely mischief/trickery--I assume in part from various comic/cartoon treatments. Heinlein spends some time on this "rehabilitation" in Job: A Comedy of Justice.

[runarberg]

I think Baldr is supposed to serve as the role model in these stories (and is arguably inspired by Jesus). And that is sort of why Loki is such a villain, since he conspired to have Baldr killed.

[foozblayd]

Loki was more a trickster than an outright villain. Most of his stories are about him cleaning up the Æsirs' messes and getting zero respect for it.

[Tenoke]

>Most people will never have even heard of, much less care, about Loki or Norse mythology

I doubt that's the case. Thor for example at least has been pretty popular from before, maybe on the level of Zeus, I'm guessing Loki was at least half as popular of a mythological character.

Even separately, I must've read at least 10 fantasy works with a trickster god named Loki.

[sovande]

>Thor for example at least has been pretty popular from before

That’s safe to say. Thursday is literally Thor’s day

[krapp]

Bear in mind that Marvel started their Asgardian mythology in the 1960s. This didn't all just start with the MCU.

[ghaff]

Short-lived, but there was at least one other 1960s vintage cartoon Asgardian series as well. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0156221/

From my perspective, Norse mythology was maybe not quite as generally known as the Greek/Roman pantheon (outside of northern Europe anyway). But it was certainly not obscure--at least as far as the Odin, Thor, Loki basics.

[ghaff]

Not sure why the downvotes. Thor appeared in various Marvel comic book properties starting in the early 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics) I'm sure this contributed to public knowledge of Thor at least among a certain demographic.

[Tenoke]

Likely because while technically correct, it's probably a very small fraction compared to how many have heard of Loki through other means.

[ghaff]

You might be surprised. I sort of went through a mythology phase so I was probably familiar with the Norse pantheon from other sources. But I also certainly remember watching both that 1960s cartoon (though only remember the theme song) and reading the comics in (mostly) the 60s.

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of Americans who can give a vaguely correct answer to Who is Loki? (or Who is Thor?) know that answer because of Marvel at some point in their lives.

[TomSwirly]

> Why? Most people will never have even heard of, much less care, about Loki or Norse mythology in any context until Marvel

:-o

For one datapoint, when I grew up in England, you'd learn about the Greek Myths and the Norse Myths in school.

I was an adult before I ever heard of the Marvel comics.