[raziel2701]

I think we're splitting hairs with the definition, it's not a ponzi but it acts like a ponzi. It's a weird distinction I suppose, I personally have no qualms calling it a ponzi scheme because new money is needed to pay old money.

[bena]

Forget "central actors" or whatever.

A ponzi scheme is a description of a certain type of fraud. We can reduce it to it being the fraud of claiming new capital as investor dividends. It's a little more complex, but at its heart, that's what you got to do.

If there is no lie about the source of the money, it's not technically not a ponzi scheme.

[perl4ever]

If that's your definition, fine, but lots of people use it in a looser sense and have forever.

Nobody wins in an argument over which definition of a word or phrase is correct.

Whatever happened to the debates over whether something was ironic?

[bena]

That argument can be used in a lot of contexts where people wouldn't. Regardless/irregardless, literally, gif, decimate, etc.

And I'm not saying don't say it's like one, I'm just saying it's technically not one.

[xqk8]

A Ponzi scheme without anyone running it isn't a Ponzi scheme.

> new money is needed to pay old money

WOW that's a broad definition. Turns out my 401k is a Ponzi!

Do you know the difference between, say, a pyramid scheme and a Ponzi scheme? Or is "new money is needed to pay old money" the most nuanced understanding you have?

[perl4ever]

It's pretty common, in the US context, to call Social Security a "Ponzi scheme".

The label is also controversial, but it should be an undisputed fact that people call it that, and it's obviously not particularly similar to Madoff's scheme.

Similarly, it's not hard to find people calling (particularly public) pension funds Ponzi schemes.

[wombatpm]

Your pension, if you have one is a ponzi. Your 401k is your money subject to special tax rules.

[shkkmo]

> A Ponzi scheme without anyone running it isn't a Ponzi scheme.

Citation please.

> Do you know the difference between, say, a pyramid scheme and a Ponzi scheme?

A pyramid scheme can make money for all participants but makes much more money for people high on the pyramid. Rising up the pyramid depends more on recruiting skill than time of entry.

A ponzi scheme doesn't actually make any money but merely redistrubtes money from later investors to earlier investors.