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by srswtf123 1834 days ago
> I never understood why programs think they should be able to control students outside of working hours

They think this for the same reasons all employers think this; employment is a watered down form of ownership.

Advancement up the social hierarchy allows one to abuse the people below them. As near as I can tell from my own experience: money and control are the things you receive as rewards.
1 comments
jhbadger 1834 days ago
Because when you are a grad student there really aren't "working hours". Your project is supposed what you are devoting all of your effort to. In part this is due to your advisor wanting results and papers, but these also help you.
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caddemon 1834 days ago
Maybe this helps students in the direct sense of modern academic career advancement, but I think it makes grad school a much more negative experience than it needs to be, and more broadly is a detriment to academic culture. I've encountered students that were forbidden from taking even a single class after they met (the very light) degree requirements, students who were not allowed to TA or volunteer mentor, students who had to sneak around just to finish analysis for a project they did with their previous lab, etc. This structure kills creativity and collaboration, and it results in a lot of graduates that have bare minimum teaching experience and no idea how to advise. Shocker that we've ended up with so many PIs that are really shitty managers!

A top neuro program in a major city will pay ~40K per year (and this is high relative to many other sciences). The rest of the compensation is health insurance and a meaningless "tuition" credit in order to register for a full "courseload" of research. Even at 40 hours per week that is shit compensation relative to what most of the students could be making elsewhere. The thesis project takes place over ~5 years, which is more than enough time to produce very good output on normal working hours. If students want to make their project their whole life fine, but as it stands there is way too much pressure coming from the top to do so, with minimal real benefits actually reaching the students.

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