[pjc50]

> What does a police officer being more afraid during a traffic stop of black people have to do with institutional power?

The police officer is institutional power. The organization which issues him a gun is institutional power. The prosecutor who will decline to prosecute him when he murders a black man is institutional power.

[trophycase]

Obviously, but the officer being more scared of a black person has nothing to do with institutional power, that's my point. I can be a penniless, poor homeless person and still be a racist piece of shit. I don't require power for that.

In my example, the fact that the person is a police officer has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are also discriminating. Certainly issues arise when the two intersect (having institutional power and discriminating) but don't conflate the two as the same.

Also this whole argument rests on the fact that power is some binary thing which isn't true at all. Power imbalances exist in every facet of life and sometimes, traditionally "oppressed" classes of people have more power than "oppressor classes" in some situation or another.

[wolverine876]

> the officer being more scared of a black person

That's a hypothetical that you created, it's not a fact: The fact is that civilians do not oppress police officers. They very rarely kill them, imprison them, stop and frisk them, etc.

> I can be a penniless, poor homeless person and still be a racist piece of shit. I don't require power for that.

> Certainly issues arise when the two intersect (having institutional power and discriminating) but don't conflate the two as the same.

I didn't call them the same; they are certainly different. The point is that it doesn't matter too much if there is discrimination without power. The penniless poor person will have little effect on the passing African-American's life; the police officer can easily ruin their life.

> this whole argument rests on the fact that power is some binary thing which isn't true at all. Power imbalances exist in every facet of life and sometimes, traditionally "oppressed" classes of people have more power than "oppressor classes" in some situation or another.

I agree, I actually thought about that, but I left out that nuance (I can't write a dissertation on HN; something must be left out). But since you bring it up: Yes, anyone can suffer discrimination on the micro level. But that is much less of an issue; it doesn't rise to the level of a society issue for two reasons:

As an example, I was going door-to-door for a political campaign and one person said to me, 'get your [deleted] ass off my porch': They were in a vulnerable group and I wasn't.

First, I wasn't feeling threatened because, again, they lacked power. They couldn't call the police and have me arrested; their neighbors wouldn't beat me up. It was just one person being jerk. Think of it this way: I've knocked on doors after dark around elections (which are in November in the U.S., and polls usually close after dark). Doing that in a white neighborhood, I've thought - what if I was a black man? It would be dangerous for me.

Second, it's just an isolated event and not a macro, society-wide problem. African-Americans have been suffering widespread discrimination by almost every institution and large sections of the population, creating great harm for generations. I had a bad experience for a few seconds. While the person shouldn't have acted that way, it wasn't a big deal; it doesn't rise to the level of a major society issue requiring legislation and Constitutional amendments. It also didn't evoke a lifetime of abuse and threat; it was just annoying. I said 'ok' and went to the next house.

[pjc50]

(there's an entire academic discipline addressing the question of "what does X have to do with institutional power", but you're not going to like what it's called)