[riknox]

I've started a new job remotely this year with quite a few junior engineers in the team, and I'm definitely finding it's much harder to mentor and make sure that they're taking the right paths while solving a problem than it was in the office. Flexibility is undoubtedly a good thing, however like you I think there is an element of paying your dues that is perhaps missing in the current environment.

[femiagbabiaka]

What does paying your dues mean and how does it make you more effective in your opinion?

[riknox]

I think a lot of the skills you learn around how you interact with people in a professional setting, developing a sense of when to ask someone for help vs. work through a problem yourself, and how to develop software professionally. I've found that we have a lot more work taken down a wrong path because it's not as easy to check in on someone remotely without it coming across as micromanagement of more junior developers. I appreciate that a fair portion of that "blame" lays with the more senior members, but I've at least found that some things that would easily be resolved face to face, or with the kind of coffee break chat you get in person, have festered on longer than they necessarily should have.

[femiagbabiaka]

all great points! this is why I'm not the hugest fan of "remote-optional" workplaces. remote-native companies tend to develop methods to achieve what you've mentioned without being in an office. remote-optional.. not as much.

[wait_a_minute]

Ehhh I’m skeptical about juniors needing face to face. Those juniors might just not be cut out for the field.

Generally there’s nothing in-person provides them that proper management in general does not. You’d both be looking at code anyway, on a screen, so pair programming is the same no matter the distance.

And there’s also the fact that experienced hires tend to not want to always baby juniors anyway. They need to learn how to read documentation and spend time on writing code. That’s mostly it for the first few years.

[alisonkisk]

Not everyone is a loner, and the people who aren't loners tend to get promoted more.

The most amazing programmer in my team, who is a loner, is 5-10years behind on the promotion ladder (against his desire).

[oblio]

> Ehhh I’m skeptical about juniors needing face to face. Those juniors might just not be cut out for the field.

You might be from a different era :-)

IT is a mass employer these days, there is no "not cut out of the field". Companies need software. They'll be bad engineers, but they'll be engineers regardless.

[wait_a_minute]

This is a fascinating point that I had not considered. Thank you! I think you're right.

[orthoxerox]

> Ehhh I’m skeptical about juniors needing face to face. Those juniors might just not be cut out for the field.

If your company's chat rooms are great, the onboarding might go well. Otherwise there's a big difference between noticing your boss/buddy is looking at their phone or having another kind of break and sneaking in a question or vice versa, noticing your junior dev's frustrated face, and looking at the green signal next to their name and wondering if it's a good time for a call.