[squiggleblaz]

> And I live in a relatively low-regulation state. I don't know how anybody ever builds anything in CA or NY.

I'm not an American so I don't know anything about your system. But perhaps the existence of many state level regulations crowds out the city and state level regulations and therefore you get less uncooperativity and more straightforwardness?

Really I think the state ought to be setting complete menus that the local governments can pick from and apply in specific areas. If it's not possible to build a house in some location, it should be clear that it's not possible to build a house in that location. And if it is, it should be clear that it is.

[majormajor]

> I'm not an American so I don't know anything about your system. But perhaps the existence of many state level regulations crowds out the city and state level regulations and therefore you get less uncooperativity and more straightforwardness?

It's less that it's any more straightforward in NY or CA, it's just that zoning and NIMBYism regulation is not the sole domain of either American political party. You can't escape it by moving to a red state.

The usual canard is something like "California won't build more dense housing, so I'm moving to Texas," but housing is even less dense in Texas, so lower costs are not caused by less regulation around housing density! It's just that the ratio of supply to demand isn't as out of whack yet, as metro area populations have been lower and the cities themselves less landlocked, so building out has been easier and cheaper.

[dboreham]

Rural Montana here: you can do pretty much whatever you want. From time to time I muse about building a nuclear waste dump...

[greyhair]

I have not lived in Rural New York in over thirty years, but when I did, there were unzoned areas in the Southern Tier, and looking at what got built there, it was clear that it was unzoned. I am certain that many of the properties were uninsurable. I knew one resourceful individual that built his own house, basic carpentry, started with tar paper exterior over open stud frame, no windows, just one door, no interior walls. None. There was the kitchen sink, five feet away, there was the toilet and bathroom sink. The interior 'insulation' and walls were discarded carpets nailed to the wall studs. Power came into a fuse panel, that only had (first year) a single double plug outlet, and a single ceiling light. The next year, he picked up a dozen windows from the dump, someone else had upgraded, and installed windows, and sheet rocked the external walls. As he 'rocked', starting low and working up the walls, he filled the voids with crumbled newspapers (also from the dump) for insulation. Are we having fun yet? So at the end of year two, he had tar paper siding (and roof), newspaper insulated exterior walls, no interior walls, and an newspaper insulated sheetrock ceiling. He also installed plugs around the perimeter exterior walls, and added a couple more ceiling lights. Almost entirely from found and recycled material. That is what no zoning will get you. I moved away around then, and have not been back. I don't know anyone that lives in that particular county any longer.

[ticviking]

Makes me miss the Rockies