[samatman]

Nah be very careful with that.

There are highly potent synthetics which are passed off as LSD, where unlike LSD, taking a small multiple of a single dose can be physically dangerous.

I've also heard of (hell experienced once) worse from pure LSD than a terrifying 8 hours. It's worthy of great respect and caution, and I don't recommend it to anyone on that basis.

Which isn't to say no one should take it, just that it won't be because I urged them to.

[h0l0cube]

I'm not speaking from naivete here. The main point is that it's temporary. And 'hell experience' can be a useful one, especially with guidance. The sensible thing to do, for a first-timer, is to have a trip-sitter.

A more qualified person on this topic is James Fadiman, who recently sat down with Sam Harris to talk specifically about his clinical studies of dosing with psychedelics.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/242-psychedelics-self/

> There are highly potent synthetics which are passed off as LSD, where unlike LSD, taking a small multiple of a single dose can be physically dangerous.

The only cheaper thing I've seen floating around the darkweb is NBOMe. Can you be explicit about what you're alluding to here?

[samatman]

> I'm not speaking from naivete here. The main point is that it's temporary.

Perhaps not, but you're not speaking from all the experience in the world either, and you're understating the dangers.

I personally know someone who jumped off a parking structure on LSD, and I know another person who had ongoing mental problems triggered by LSD psychosis, where "temporary" included a bout of hospitalization and moving home to live in his Mom's basement for awhile, while he got his shit together.

And please don't say that suicide and psychosis happen to people when they aren't on LSD as well, or handwave about "don't take it if you might have latent psychosis". I know more people who use ecstasy than take LSD, and I've never heard of someone killing themselves on it; and how, exactly, is someone supposed to know they have latent psychotic tendencies before a heavy acid trip triggers them?

LSD is an incredibly powerful substance, which should be treated with respect, caution, and even a bit of fear. Obviously it can be worth it, the median LSD experience is life-changing in a positive direction, but in my humble opinion 2CB and psilocybin have a lot to offer while being less dangerous. 2CB doesn't appear to be psychotogenic at all, and psiloc(yb)in lasts 1/3rd as long, is less stimulating, and an hour of psychic trauma (which lasts a subjective lifetime) is less risky than six hours of psychic trauma (each of which lasts a subjective lifetime).

Of course, among my friends, the second worst outcome was nine years in prison. LSD shouldn't be illegal, and it has a lot to offer the world. But just like people should know that downhill skiing risks breaking your neck, no one should go into a relationship with LSD thinking that a 'temporary' bad time is the worst thing that can happen. It isn't.

Yes, I was referring to 2CBFly-NBOMe and 25I-NBOMe. There may be others by now, but if so I'm not aware of them. Point being that "LSD is not physically dangerous" needs to include the warning that not everything someone puts on a blotter is LSD, and some of those things can kill you in a very unpleasant way.

I've been to a bunch of MAPS conferences and met Jim, so since I don't like Sam Harris I'll pass on that particular podcast.

[h0l0cube]

Thanks for detailing your specific criticisms, seems like you've some valid points. I can't say that I've been privy to any of the stories about psychosis, but if your anecdotes are personally verified (and you clearly know your shit) then I must be somewhat swayed by your experience. As an aside, I also think people should be cautious about psychosis from cannabis, based on my own witness of it ruining lives. Do you have any knowledge specifically about NBOMe?

As for Sam Harris, he says a bunch of unseemly things so I also understand your distaste for him. He does take a strong interest in psychedelics and meditation however, which are both interests of mine.