[Jakobeha]

I've gone on super long runs (10+ miles) through cities, parks, and other beautiful environments.

These runs can be transcendental. During them, I felt like I was at peace and all my problems almost went away. Now I think back on them and feel nostalgia, also I appreciate nature and architecture a lot more. For me, runners high is very real.

I've never taken drugs or psychedelics, but I would be interested in hearing people who've done both compare the two. I really think it's a similar experience.

[not_jd_salinger]

I've done a reasonable amount of both psychedelics and long distance running (finished full and half marathons + the training required to do that) and they're completely different things.

Both are great, both can be great tools for self discovery, and both can yield annoyingly ardent fans. I personally think everyone who is interested in experiencing life should aim to do a 10+ mile run and take a reasonably strong dose of a psychedelic. But by no means is your life impoverished by having neither experience.

> I felt like I was at peace and all my problems almost went away.

Right away this is a key difference, the peace you feel running is closer to a mild opioid than any psychedelic. Long distance running is fantastic for this sort of deep meditation, and for many people will be much easier than performing long sitting mediation. However I would say the end result of this running is that you travel deep within yourself.

Psychedelics on the other hands will temporarily take your mind apart. It is very common to experience looking in the mirror and seeing 'you' as just another body that is no different than the other bodies on the street. Psychedelics are both more exhilarating and more terrifying. Baggage you are carrying around can easily spiral in to a "bad" trip (which may be terrifying, but many would agree is not really a "bad" thing). At the same time and during the same experience you can see and feel the details in a blade of grass that let you feel a sense of beauty in the mundane that is a very different intensity than the peaceful bliss that can come from running.

I highly recommend you try something like shrooms in the safe environment. Not dissimilar to running a marathon, once can be enough of an experience for a lifetime (where for some people they want it to be a major part of their life, which is fine too in both cases).

[pulkitsh1234]

well said !

[emc3]

> highly recommend you try something like shrooms in the safe environment

Just listened to Seth Rogen's audible book (hilarious, and decent anecdata on shrooms particularly) and he would say shrooms are a lot more intense than LSD. Shrooms take control while on LSD you're "the pilot."

[hellbannedguy]

I heard he smokes 5 joints a day. His wife rolls them, so he doesn't smoke too much.

He has good genes, or a high tolerance.

I tried smoking around December, and realized I hated it. I liked it in high school. I couldn't wait until the effect went away. It's weird I kept trying it, and finally gave up. Was about to toss it, but hide it instead--too cheap to toss?

Then again real life has been scaring me for years. I wish there was a calming drug that was easy on the body.

[not_jd_salinger]

> Then again real life has been scaring me for years.

Especially with the extremely high THC content of modern strains people often fail to recognize that weed is still a psychedelic in its own right.

Alcohol, for most people, will simply make you feel good (up to a point), but strong weed can often magnify strong emotions you have. During a particularly challenging time in my life I completely gave up weed because smoking only served to make me feel worse.

Like all psychedelics the negative experience can be useful, for example if you get very anxious when you smoke it's likely you have some other unaddressed problems, but for those that are just looking for an escape (and most people, myself included, are looking for this from weed) it can certainly make smoking during stressful times a bad idea.

[sverona]

> Shrooms take control while on LSD you're "the pilot."

A counterargument that a friend told me once: a psilocybin trip is like a wagon ride that takes you to what you need to see. LSD is like a jet plane that takes you instantly to where your brain wants to go.

I think it probably depends on the person. My first psilocybin trip was the most intense experience I've had, but then I had a lot that I needed to confront at the time.

[colecut]

I've had probably a hundred lsd trips and dozens of mushroom trips.

In all there were three trips I would call "bad", I went to what I perceived as hell. The mushroom bad trip was nearly indistinguishable from the acid bad trips.

In all three cases I felt immense gratitude for the trips being over yet thankful for the experiences.

[olyjohn]

May be because with mushrooms, you don't necessarily know your exact dose of the drug, as I'm sure it can vary batch to batch, and shroom to shroom. LSD, you usually know how much you're getting on each tab. Of course, you could could process the mushrooms and figure out how much psilocybin you're getting, then do a comparison... But usually, I think people just eat the mushrooms or make them into tea.

[rocgf]

I've heard this many times and there is definitely some truth there, but for small doses (i.e. 100ug LSD and 1-1.5g mushrooms), I don't think you need to overly-concern yourself with minutiae of the differences.

There is no reason to take more than this as introductory doses, and then you can make up your own mind.

[vmception]

When I do “tranquil” things like being on a trail I mostly wind up thinking about others things I can be doing

Like I get motivated to do things I’m procrastinating on, except now I’m in the middle of a trail and cant

This can have redeeming benefits like sorting out thoughts for things I hadnt considered and I can enjoy it when I get into it, but this is a different experience than psychadelics

Also not all trails I can get into. Some start boring and stay boring.

An exercise high where you zone off into your thoughts and get a (theorized) release of dopamine and serotonin from your muscles aching is very different than psychedelics

Some/Many people on the trails around you are also on psychadelics. You shouldnt be able to tell, but especially if they are microdosing.

I would say while using psychadelics that stimuli guides your thoughts differently. Your mind is sorting different things. And primarily different neuron groups are communicating that typically aren’t, or are now communicating at higher bandwidth. This is all theorized based on shared experiences and some MRIs that show enhanced activity but arent capable of corroborating how neurons are connected. The serotonin released is also considered to be amplified. For many, this has redeeming benefits. More study is needed so at least less redeeming side effects can be listed on the bottle like every fda evaluated drug.

Being in the woods and being on psychadelics isnt mutually exclusive

[munificent]

> Like I get motivated to do things I’m procrastinating on, except now I’m in the middle of a trail and cant

This is a really common phenomenon. We also experience it in the shower or laying in bed at night.

I think the common understanding is that it's a dumb little trick our anxiety is playing on us. One of the main reasons we procrastinate is fear: that we will fail at the task, that it will be too hard, that it will impinge on our picture of ourselves in some way. So we know we're supposed to do it, but we also don't want to.

When we're in a situation where we could work on it, those procrastinating rationalizations rise up to let us escape the risk of those negative experiences. But if we're in a situation where we can't do the task we're afraid of, there's no reason to put the unconscious mental effort into summoning those mental blocks. So we experience that as "I feel really motivated right now but I can't."

What's really going on is that you're equally motivated all the time, you just have other negative stuff layered on top at points when you could be doing the thing. Work through that negative stuff, and you'll feel just as motivated even when you are able to do the task.

[reverse_list]

Marcel Proust wrote a piece on the subject.

> since within twenty-four hours, in the empty frame of that long morrow in which everything was so well arranged because I myself had not yet entered it, my good intentions would be realised without difficulty ... Unfortunately the morrow was not that vast, external day to which I in my fever had looked forward. When it drew to a close, my laziness and my painful struggle to overcome certain internal obstacles had simply lasted twenty-four hours longer.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/63532/63532-h/63532-h.htm

[vmception]

Doesn't happen on psychedelics though

Its all replaced with a deconstructive process. Deconstructive of the mental model and fabric of reality.

Might result in insight into something you’re procrastinating on

Might just make your stomach hurt and question if this is a good or bad drug

Very different than just removing anxiety distractions

[frereubu]

They're pretty different in my experience (used to take LSD, run instead these days). LSD can be different things to different people, but for me it was a really intense experience, where everything was really vivid and alive. I think I get the runner's high you talk about, but it's much more meditative and (for lack of a less loaded term) wholesome. The comedown from LSD can be pretty grim, but running first thing in the morning improves my entire day.

Edit: Actually, if the comparison is microdosing I've never done that. But I'd take a run over microdosing any day, even if I could get guaranteed pharmeceutical-grade LSD on tap.

[Jagerbizzle]

I've done plenty of drugs and also have hobbies like backcountry skiing and mountaineering, having climbed some of the highest peaks in North America. They really aren't the same thing, but what I can say is that the high I had after a 3 week Alaskan expedition has never been matched by substances or anything else.

Unfortunately I can't go on a 3 week expedition every weekend.

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

While it's possible to enter altered states of consciousness via endurance sport, (or meditation, yoga, breathing exercises, etc). the experience is fundamentally different than ingesting psychoactive substances.

With one, you have to actively work to achieve an altered state. With the other, once you ingest the thing, it's happening whether you want it to or not.

One is an act of willful exertion, the other is an act of surrender.

[LargoLasskhyfv]

I know runners high. But running isn't(wasn't) my main thing, that would be bicycling. Anyway, long ago I had a very broken upper arm which made running unenjoyable. At the time I had a prescription for time released/retarded Tramadolhydrochloride which is a mild Opioid, not something like Fentanyl, or such.

One day I felt the urge to run and popped a pill in preparation, which kicks in after about half an hour. Where kicks in means pain is gone like a switch is thrown, and not much else, maybe a feeling of relaxation, but that may have been just because the pain was gone?

So I've been ready, and then a thunderstorm started. That was unexpected, because the weather was fine, and then suddenly it wasn't anymore. Whatever, didn't want to have taken the pill for nothing, and went out to run in spite of the rain.

Along one side of the mountains forming a valley, on a path through a pine forest above the train tracks curving along the mountain above the little valley.

Soaked, but so what? It was warm summer rain. I could see down to the train tracks, between 50 to 150meters away(that varied)

And then the lightnings really started. It came to mind that it wouldn't be a good idea to be out there, so exposed, during that much lightning, maybe even suicidal. I coldly calculated that all the trees there made much better lightning rods than me, and ran on.

While doing that I saw dozens of lightnings hitting the tracks and their electrification/overhead wire and masts, again and again.

Like in some crazy movie-fx/CGI. Because I perceived it in slow motion, white-blue-violet-purple colored, branching apart, similar to the roots of a tree, but not. And the thundering, even the echoes giving you light full body slaps.

While on the usual runners high, feeling light, flying.

This went on for maybe 10km over half an hour, then I had to turn back because end of way. Well, not exactly, but no more forest, and I don't like to run in urban areas between housing and traffic.

So, for me the kind of drugs I took just intensified that and I'd agree with you regarding the similarity of experience.

But there are other drugs working differently, there are other people reacting different to some(or all?) drugs than others, and there are (supposedly?) different 'neuro-architectures' ('wiring of the brain') resulting in different sensibilities on a spectrum/scale from something vague to something vague :-)

[unifiedtheory]

fascinating experience and insight

[jk7tarYZAQNpTQa]

> These runs can be transcendental.

I truly believe it. The happiness you feel after a race, or a good workout, is indescribable. I've never been happier than when I routinely worked out for 90 minutes a day, 6 days a week. I was floating, and had random endorphins highs during the day.

I've never microdosed, but from what I've read I think running (and more generally sport) can be similar to it. Maybe similar to meditating, too.

[humanlion87]

I have gone on long runs but have never been able to hit the runner's high (that I have read about). I used to have some music on during runs (wasn't really listening to the songs actually) but I have stopped that as well recently. Maybe expecting the "high" is the wrong thing to do and that's preventing me from achieving it :). Hopefully I will achieve it one of these days...

[ranprieur]

I've been running for years, without expecting runner's high, and also without ever getting it. I assume runners who get it just have a different kind of brain-body.

[antihipocrat]

I used to feel the runners high regularly when I first started out.

Back then I was pushing my body beyond the limits my brain thought was possible, and each time I broke through those limits it was exhilarating.

Nowadays when I run it is more a calm and meditative experience, however I'm also running within those limits, some quite extensive, that I had set myself in past runs.

Except that one time recently when, on a whim, I set myself a new goal to run all of the large hills in my area in one session. During the attempt my brain was screaming at me to stop, but I kept going and made it. From the moment I knew I could make it I felt the high again, a rush that radiated from my brain through the body and crashed against my extremities. My legs felt like they were flying over the pavement, the world around me became crystal clear, I had a beaming smile plastered on my face and I found myself wondering if I had attained godhood.

I've since come back to earth, but the experience made me realize that I'll need to set some tough challenges to feel that high again.

[sharadov]

How is this different from an intense gym workout or playing racquetball or yoga? Comparing these to running and not psychedelics. I don't want to be doing any strenuous physical activity on psychedelics, a hike through nature would be nice. Each of those activities gives me a high, but different ones at that. But nevertheless I feel ebullient and in a state of flow.

[notdang]

I also do long run (80k, 100k distances so far) and maybe the first 30k-40k can be pleasant and feel transcendental, but after that everything is pain. Also at some point the pain disappears and then there is nothing.

[softwaredoug]

Before a family vacation recently, I went on a long 11 mile hike by myself. It helped just completely empty my mind, especially the transition from work mind -> family mind. Planning to do it more often...

[NikolaeVarius]

They are nowhere near the local galactic cluster of similar experiences.

[jpm_sd]

I'm also lacking psychedelic experience, but one of the ways I made it through the pandemic was going for 4+ hour bike rides on Sundays. Total reset for my brain.

[garrickvanburen]

Yes, I’ve experienced the same. Always between 10-18miles and through nature in a part of town different from my day-to-day.

[cyberpunk]

You meditated you just didn’t know it. Try sitting zazen now and again, a quick search can help you out with it :)