[endymi0n]

This.

> yachts and super cars will pay 90% tax

Oh really? But car parts are just 20% so let‘s just cut the Veyron in half before delivery. And the yacht is better privately rented from that Serbian shell company whose business model it is to just own one boat and rent it to a single person.

Rich people are smart and greedy. And if they aren‘t, so are their tax advisors.

There is a massive case for simplicity in tax code, even if it does not fit perfectly.

Minimum gloval tax, revenue tax, Tobin tax, high inheritance tax (with significant tax free minimums) and a land value tax would be way harder to cheat and easier to implement.

[ericmay]

The only one you can’t actually cheat is property tax. The government can send someone there and seize the asset. Everything else can be avoided or fought.

I think what we are seeing is the beginning of the slow destruction of the nation state which was built to fight existential and total wars. The only thing higher tax rates are going to do is push wealth out of some countries and into others, unfortunately. Why doesn’t the U.S. just invade the Bahamas and stop tax avoidance? Once you realize why, you’ll realize that just taxing more won’t work.

Whether we like it or not, I think the standing down of the nation state from wars in the past is going to lead to a collapse of welfare states and social programs (I don’t use these terms negatively so don’t assume I’m “against” these programs), and continued fragmentation of large national and international organizations. Some people are very happy with their nation (Norway or Switzerland or something), others aren’t (United States, China). Those who aren’t are going to move their wealth to somewhere that is advantageous to them. Even China doesn’t stop this. Wonder why housing prices are so high in Vancouver?

Most people for most of history haven’t lived in anything approaching a nation state. It’s a new thing, and it is likely in my view to be temporary. It’s hard for us to see because it’s what we were born into and our perspectives are short term.

[thow-01187]

What about the following proposition - any publicly traded company must issue, every calendar year, new shares worth of 2% of the total shares outstanding, and transfer them to the tax office.

That's essentially a 2% wealth tax on the stock market, borne equally by all shareholders, regardless of their residence. Maybe I'm just naive, but I don't see any accounting magic to avoid such a tax.

But then again - there's one agenda that unites left and right across the developed world - no wealth taxes.

[ericmay]

The tax office where? In the United States? Maybe companies would just stop “going public” or would become publicly traded in another jurisdiction. Or maybe France doesn’t like that China says French companies have to issue 2% per year in new shares to operate in China. Or better yet, how do you do this in all countries? Is it 2%/year in all countries?

Etc. I think there are a lot of scenarios to think through.

-edit-

Didn’t downvote you BTW. Shame on those who are when you’re just having a discussion. We really need to get rid of that as a tool.

[dredmorbius]

A land tax (a special case of a property tax) is probably among the more avoidance-resistant taxes. There should be numerous others which might exist, particularly in regulated financial industries.

[ericmay]

Yes land/property. You can’t avoid it because the government can physically take it.

[RyanHamilton]

Interesting points. Can you provide a definition of your nation state?

[ericmay]

I'd just say you can think of it in colloquial terms. China is a nation state, as is France, Germany, Russia, Venezuela, etc. Some are looser than others, some are stronger. Along these lines I think ethnicity and homogeneity play a part but not always.

There's some room for argument about who and what are nation states - does the Bahamas qualify as a nation state or just a convenient government? Are some countries stronger nation states? What's the difference between countries and nation states? Is there one? There are probably some items to explore there for me too.

Maybe there's something you have in mind you want to discuss with respect to the concept of the nation state?