[echelon]

> There is also another interesting observation: the more related to WW2 people die the more Cold War #2 we see.

I might be misinterpreting, but many in Gen Z seem to consider WWII and Nazi history as a kind of meme to joke about. (9/11 too, for that matter.)

I'm worried we might be destined to forget the lessons we learned. The rise of domestic terror, hate, and partisanship doesn't help.

[caslon]

It's called dark humor. Tragic events can be respected and grasped without some puritanical concept of them being "untouchable" subjects. A joke about 9/11 is almost certainly taking advantage of (and probably directly in opposition to) the exact attitude that lead to it becoming "off-limits" in the first place, and playing with it.

[mhh__]

That and it's important to counteract people in high office/s around the world using 9/11 and other terrorist attacks to achieve their own ends.

[tombert]

Wait, really? I'm a millennial, not gen-z, but I feel like Nazi/WWII jokes were way more popular in the 90's and early 2000's than they are now.

For example, in Seinfeld, they had a character called the "soup Nazi", a character that was extremely asshole-ey about who he gave soup to. This was not a controversial episode or anything, and became one of the most quoted episodes of the series. Nowadays I'm not sure if that would be considered "ok."

I feel like the rise of domestic terror, white nationalism, and fascism is scary, but seems to a) by mostly composed of millenials my age and older, and b) a lot more complicated than some edgelord humor.

That said, despite the fact that I love edgey subversive humor, I agree that trivializing things as "just jokes" isn't a good thing; if it means fewer memes, I can live with that.

[kevin_thibedeau]

There is a long history of lampooning nazis for comedic effect, very often performed by Jewish comedians. Hogan's Heroes is a sitcom about POWs sticking it to the foolish krauts. The concept would never fly today but it was standard fare for post war comedy. The children who grew up with that culture continued using it into the 90's.

[tombert]

> The concept would never fly today

I mean I don't know if I would go that far; things like Hipster Hitler got a fair amount of traction, at least for a bit [0]. Hardly indicative of the entirety of human culture, and obviously it's not a major network sitcom like Hogan's Heroes (or Seinfeld).

Also, a staple of the Call of Duty franchise is a tongue-and-cheek mode of running around killing zombie Nazis, isn't it? (I admittedly haven't played it), and it's not like "Iron Sky"[1] was meant to be taken super seriously.

I think it's unnecessarily reductive to say "one generation is ok with subject X and another generation isn't." I don't think humans really form big, homogeneous groups completely based around the year they were born.

[0] http://www.hipsterhitler.com/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky

[Garvey]

JoJo Rabbit?

[rendall]

Anglophone millennials have a reputation for being humorless, self-righteous and fragile. Hopefully, this is untrue.

[tombert]

I think it's kind of silly to act like groups of people separated by year really has any meaning for most things. I (an Anglophone millenial) tend to enjoy really edgy subversive comedy, as do most of my friends of the same age. My grandmother (a bit too old to be a boomer) will get upset if I say any word that could be considered vulgar.

[rendall]

> I (an Anglophone millenial)...

No need to tell us this, tbh. Your easy reference to "the rise of domestic terror, white nationalism, and fascism" to rationalize shutting down humor already marked you as a millennial, my dude, your claims to enjoy edgy humor notwithstanding.

Humor has unsettled fragile, self-righteous authoritarians throughout history, including but sadly by no means limited to, fascists. Attempts to shut it down are always concerning. They will never say "we want to stamp our boot on the face of humanity" as the reason for shutting down humor. It will always be a plausible reason: "we are at war" or "some things are too serious to joke about" or "vulnerable people need our protection"

Embrace your love of edgy humor. It's how people deal healthily with their anxieties and concerns.

[tombert]

So, I guess you didn't really read my other posts in this thread; getting upset about certain jokes is hardly unique to millennials, and it's pretty silly to act like it is.

I realize I didn't make it as clear as I'd like (and that's my fault), but I wasn't suggesting "shutting down" humor. What I was trying to say (unsuccessfully) was that we should potentially be less tolerant of certain humor en masse via social pressures. I'm really not in favor of having a government entity disallowing humor.

For example, throughout the 90's and early 2000's, it used to be somewhat tolerated to use gay stereotypes to make fun of gay people. Eventually we realized (for the most part) that these stereotypes might be harmful, and for the most part have stopped making these kinds of gay jokes. It wasn't like the government stepped in and said "it's illegal to make fun of gay people", we just socially moved on from that.

[rendall]

> throughout the 90's and early 2000's, it used to be somewhat tolerated to use gay stereotypes to make fun of gay people

This is true. Today, being gay is generally accepted.

Before the 1970s, homosexuality was so unacceptable even joking about it was unacceptable. Homosexuality was invisible. At best, if you were enlightened, you would consider it a mental illness. Most just considered it a moral abomination.

I would argue that jokes from Eddie Murphy, Andrew Dice Clay, Sam Kinnison were simultaneously an expression of society's anxiety about social change, and part of the start of a national, or even global conversation that led to "Enh, being gay is no big deal. As long as it's consensual, let people do what they want."

Today those jokes aren't funny, but I wonder if homosexuality would be as accepted as it is without them. The conversation became increasingly about whether the jokes were fair or not; funny or not. Which at the time was miles better than one mustn't joke about homosexuality

Jokes can be mean-spirited bullying moving society towards being more oppressive and less tolerant, but not always. Not inevitably. Humor pushes taboos and boundaries, sometimes towards good.

[tomc1985]

So how does one explain South Park, Chapelle's Show, or George Carlin?

[samatman]

Gen X, Gen X, and the Silent Generation?

[tomc1985]

The first two are most definitely for a millenial+Gen X audience. Carlin is arguably Gen X but as an elder millenial I heard a lot about him from the folks I looked up to.

[bawolff]

Wait what?

Why would making nazis the but of a joke not fly today?

[Applejinx]

Among other things, they would object.

[bawolff]

Pretty sure nobody gives a shit what the nazis think.

[rendall]

Ostensibly, some topics are off the table because it would upset vulnerable people and we cannot have that. The real reason is that authoritarianism is on the rise on both the left and the right, and shutting down humor is one method to assert control.

[shard]

"Iron Sky: The Coming Race" was released only 2 years ago. Have things changed that much since then?

https://www.cinecity.nl/sites/default/files/images/movies/35...

[rendall]

Disclaimer: It could legitimately be argued that these folks were canceled for lack of funny, or for anti-Semitism, and not their Nazi jokes, per se. But canceled for Nazi jokes:

https://www.queerty.com/sharon-needles-banned-from-performin...

https://www.vulture.com/2017/03/samantha-bee-apologizes-to-c...

https://www.thewrap.com/last-man-standing-canceled-tim-allen...

https://forward.com/fast-forward/424615/comedian-isaac-butte...

[shard]

Interesting.

It seems like you can make fun of the Nazis directly, but cannot joke about the situation surrounding the time/place/events regarding the Nazis.