[throwaway292893]

Wow. What an incredibly offensive comment. I love how HN understands the right to repair when it comes to their gadgets, but when it comes to tractors it's probably because the farmers are uneducated hicks. Please tell me more how they don't understand AG science enough, but you have such a strong grasp on it.

JD tractors were and are reliable and top tier in quality, that's why they are popular and that's why people stick to the brand. I've built Kioti tractors when I was teenager. They'd do the job if you had to use it, but it's no JD in terms of quality.

Farmers just want the quality they've always had with JD but the ability to fix simple stuff like they used to without it costing them an arm and a leg.

The stereotypes you listed off don't sound like anyone I've ever experienced. They sound like caricatures you painted in your head with your lack of understanding.

[etempleton]

I am sorry you took offense to the comment, it was not meant to be offensive. I never claimed to have any grasp on agriculture science. And I never called anyone a "hick." And of course I am speaking in generalities. Simply observing what I saw growing up. I grew up on a small farm (though I certainly would never call myself a farmer) and grew up with farmers of all types and all income levels. Some chose to be willfully ignorant and not really learn how to run the family business even though that was their end goal and some did. I don't think this was a matter of capacity of the individuals. Some of those that were willfully ignorant were quite well off and some were not quite as well off. Some took a formal route to education, some self studied. It is simple anecdotal observation that some of the more successful farmers I know a). Educated themselves one way or another. b). Those same farmers, for the most part, have started or have already moved away from John Deere. Largely due to the right to repair issues, in part due to the premium cost, but some of the farmers that I have talked to have relayed to me that they feel the quality has dropped, which is perhaps not reality, simply their perception based on frustrations surrounding right to repair. John Deere has also rapidly expanded their product categories and not all of their new products share the same famous reliability as their ag products, which could negatively impact overall perception of the brand.

[tekknik]

Generally when someone is calling another uneducated it’s offensive. You can probably safely remove that word from online discourse and people wouldn’t react that way.

Talking about anybody’s education level, specifically when saying they can’t do or understand something because of it, is extremely offensive and hateful.

[throwaway292893]

The tone of your comment changed dramatically in this reply. You didn't have to say hick, you implied it with your uneducated rant. You simply don't understand why they want a John Deere, and it's not because they are uneducated.

Also, maybe never try to shove people into categories, especially only 3 categories. Especially one category being "uneducated". You reached all that from a topic about repairing tractors and their choice of brand. Think about that.

Your "anecdote" doesn't match my experience and it lines up with an outsider perspective with a dash of elitism. You said you don't know anything about AG science, so how could you judge others knowledge of it?

[etempleton]

I appreciate your feedback. I phrased poorly. By uneducated I never meant formal education exclusively. There are many ways to learn and I personally find self study to be the most effective.

And I am sorry I came across as elitist, I grew up lower to lower-middle class, and my parents grew up dirt poor. As my mother would say, "you come from a long line of poor farmers."

I judge because those students who actively refused to learn were my peers...sometimes my relatives. Again, I would say it was 50/50. Some of those individuals were very well off, and now struggle to manage the farm they inherited. Others grew up in poverty and now have advanced degrees, or have otherwise educated themselves and run a very successful farm or now own a very successful farm.

[throwaway292893]

> 'Likely barely passed high school due to a complete lack of effort, because they were going to be farmers and school, "couldn't teach them nothin."

> The problem with these individuals as it relates to business is that they do not understand business or accounting and probably only have a rudimentary understanding of ag science.

> their only basic ag science understanding leaves them unable to adapt as well as the pros to droughts, infestations, and other adverse conditions."

So please tell me, how did you come to realize these faults in these people you met. Did they explain to you that their accounting was bad, did you see their books, did you test their soil, did you see them struggle with an infestation, or are you simply guessing and hurling insults?

Since you prefixed your statement with "probably" I'm going to guess that you're using the #2 category to shit on a group of people while the #1 category is used to argue your point that smart farmers support your conclusion that john deere = bad.

This situation has nothing to do with "uneducated farmers" and everything to do with JD being the top tier brand but also shafting its customers by not allowing them to repair their product.

Kubota doesn't come close to JD, especially in larger tractors and integrations.

[tweetle_beetle]

We would struggle to discuss anything of any significant size if simplified models were not used. John Deere forecasted earnings of $5 billion this year and statistics about the education of all of their customers presumably don't exist.

You may disagree with the model used, but it was clearly an opinionated one based on personal experience. If you have a different one, then we can all compare, contrast and hopefully continue a curious conversation.

[throwaway292893]

An anecdote is not a simplified model. They were stereotypes.

He shoved "uneducated farmers" into the same group of people that idolized John Deere for the brand alone, but did not offer any connection between the two.

Typical HN elitism. My anecdotes do differ, and it's mostly generational. Either you're a younger farmer that has gone to A&M and you're heavy into Ag Science or you're more old school and you use techniques passed down. Or you're a big time operator and none of this applies.

Nothing to do with what OP said.

[bananabreakfast]

Relax. This commenter is speaking in generalities and it's like you're interpreting it as a personal attack.

They simply said that there exist a category of farmers who do not participate in the normal schooling system and choose brands based only on status. This phenomena exists for nearly all brands. You can't possibly be disputing that these people exist?

Keep away from ad hominem attacks, they only serve to dilute your argument.

[throwaway292893]

His categories are false. You think all the farmers that don't have an education are the same ones that choose the brand based on status?

No, education is generational. Most younger farmers have gone to a good ag science school like A&M. Most older farmers don't have an education but have tons of experience and use techniques passed down that are essentially the same as what is taught in schools.

Whether you brand whore or not is not based on your education status, which is what OP suggested.

[debacle]

Deere does not have a monopoly on quality. Yes, if you compare them to Kioti (a discount brand), they are superior, but there are other manufacturers (NH, Mahindra, Kubota, etc) where they stand up just as well.

[throwaway292893]

Try sitting in a Kubota for 12 hours vs a JD. Your ass will be able to tell a difference.

At this point it's better to buy a Kubota to avoid the lock-in, but JD is still far superior when it comes to the attention to detail.