[systemvoltage]

A friend of mine flew out from Zurich to CA to get a shot.

They gave him one without checking anything. His response? “America has the best vaccine program on the planet. They have so many rules in Zurich that the confusion is holding things back. They’d rather throw away vaccines than break minor rules”.

Vaccination should be easy, bureaucracy free and straightforward; especially now. I can understand age restrictions from Dec-Mar.

This is not like standing in the line at DMV. The entire country needs to be vaccinated and if we put too many rules around this, we all lose and that’s unethical. I urge everyone to be reasonable and flexible. This does not mean you should go and cut lines, push elderly and others aside. The goal for everyone should be efficient distribution of vaccines.

[hiq]

> They gave him one without checking anything. His response? “America has the best vaccine program on the planet. They have so many rules in Zurich that the confusion is holding things back. They’d rather throw away vaccines than break minor rules”.

I live in Zurich, the vaccination program is crystal clear. If there are free slots, you can book an appointment. Up to recently, if you were not in a priority group (which are well-defined), you couldn't book. Now it's open to everyone. I haven't heard of vaccines thrown away.

I don't know what your friend found confusing in Zurich, or how he somehow concluded that flying long-distance during the pandemic to get a shot in CA is worth it.

[rurban]

I've heard of about 2 million shots thrown away so far, but only from internal medical sources.

You would not dare to call friends and neighbors, you rather throw them away. Public outrage only over the first

[hiq]

> I've heard of about 2 million shots thrown away so far, but only from internal medical sources.

I couldn't find any information about this, is that more than a rumor? Where did you read this? Honestly I find this hard to believe without more evidence.

[systemvoltage]

I had a long chat with him and don't remember it all but I paraphrased his take on Zurich's vaccine program. I don't know enough about situation there but my guess of why they flew down to CA was probably that they didn't cut it for the tier, frustrated by the slow roll out and the trip was most likely not a dedicated trip - they also rented an RV to travel around. Vaccication!

[hiq]

The main differences between the countries which could have frustrated your friend could be:

- Switzerland got their doses later than the US for a variety of reasons, so the US was able to give them away earlier, and lift the age restrictions earlier

- Switzerland made clear groups to assign priorities, with which you friend might not have been happy (presumably because he is in the last group, as I am)

That would explain why in his personal situation he was better off getting the vaccine in the US while on vacation there, but that's not really a case of too many rules or red tape holding the vaccination back in Zurich.

[systemvoltage]

I see, thanks for sharing your perspective.

[HWR_14]

I don't think anyone's disputing that extra vaccines should go in arms as opposed to getting thrown out. However, given wait times in the 4-8 hour range all over this page, that clearly wasn't the case.

And how is this not like standing in line at the DMV. We have a number of people to process and limited resources to process them. It seems like an excellent analogy. If we had to reissue all licenses, I would like to think we would prioritize truck/bus/ambulance/fire engine drivers over other people. Than probably people who need to go to work. The people who need to go to essential jobs. Then unessential jobs. Then people who were working from home.

[systemvoltage]

I agree with you - it depends and there is a nuance to each situation. Also, it is not like DMV because of the scale of vaccination. Vaccination is more akin to voting - less bureacracy leads to be better outcome. Too many rules and complicated voting process means lower voter turnout.

I hope that makes sense. Vaccination isn't an individual's selfish activity (like DMV queue) - it is a social contract and responsibility to prevent the spread of virus by lowering the r^2 value and breaking the chain of spread. It's not a perfect analogy of course and we're bikeshedding on the accuracy of the analogy... :-/

[HWR_14]

Vaccination is positive for society as well, but when this took place in mid-March it was definitely a selfish activity.

It's not like voting - you voting doesn't prevent me from voting.

Obviously, too many rules is bad. And too few rules are. And, just like voting, this site did not require ID because it would have harmed their ability to help an underserved population. It used the honor system. The people we're talking about violated that.

[OldHand2018]

I think there is a large difference between having guidelines and asking people to voluntarily follow them for the sake of expediency, and having a policy of first-come-first-served.

This incident was in March, and what is really sad is that back in March there were places in the US where it really was first-come-first-served. I know many people here in Illinois that got vaccines in Indiana because their official policy was that any open slot was fair game if it was less than 24 hours to go. That policy started in late February or early March.

There is absolutely no reason to be jumping in line, especially if you have the means to travel.

[jshen]

It was very different in CA than it was in IL. demand far outpaced supply here in CA during the time we’re talking about.

[chx]

> friend of mine flew out from Zurich to CA to get a shot.

I call BS.

Unless said friend is a US citizen, people who have physically been to the Schengen area have been forbidden to enter the US for quite a while now. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-oth...

[systemvoltage]

There are exceptions, I’m sure otherwise I would have not met him (!!). His wife is US citizen. He is not. What more can I say?

You can call BS all you want. Your response sort of violates the HN protocol of assuming the best of people.

Edit: Perhaps because his wife is US Citizen, this would apply but not sure: "As further provided in each proclamation, citizens and lawful permanent residents of the United States, certain family members, and other individuals who meet specified exceptions, who have been in one of the countries listed above in the past 14 days will be allowed to enter the United States". I really don't know.

[bellyfullofbac]

If you click the link "European Schengen area", it leads to the detailed proclamation[1], and:

2 (a) Section 1 of this proclamation [the suspension of entry] shall not apply to: [...] (iii) any noncitizen who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;

So yeah, GP is typical of the world nowadays, calling BS without knowing all the details...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-action...

[pseudalopex]

Why not assume their friend is a US citizen?

[systemvoltage]

He is not a US citizen.