[ttt0]

I don't know about this particular wording, but from my point of view here is what happened:

At first the loosely defined right-wing were panicking about the virus. Myself included, although I wasn't really panicking, just getting myself mentally prepared that this might possibly be the second black plague that could wipe out a similar percentage of the population. Meanwhile the loosely defined left-wing was ridiculing it, laughing about it, saying that there is no evidence that the virus is dangerous and calling people fearmongers and racists (?). And then everything switched. As it turned out, the virus wasn't as nearly dangerous as I initially though it'd be and the left-wing suddenly started acting like we're all going to die.

[croon]

Fascinating how your PoV is so fundamentally different from mine, even when archive browsing the web a bit now.

Regarding:

> calling people fearmongers and racists (?)

I remember asian (or of asian descent) acquaintances being spit on and yelled at in the vein of "you're killing us!" on the subway for ostensibly looking Chinese (I'm guessing), at a time when the virus was already likelier to spread from other countries, and I'd say the more left leaning were pointing this out. People doing that don't reach that stage of racebased profiling independently without someone drumming up "chinavirus" as soon as it was no longer feasible to shrug it off. Is that maybe what you're referring to?

[ttt0]

Yes, it really is fascinating how there are basically two entirely different worlds out there. But we're not in disagreement that the positions switched at some point, right?

I've seen people talking about the rise in anti-asian hate crimes and it being incorrectly blamed on white supremacy, but that happened somewhat recently. At the point in time we're talking about I haven't really heard about anything too much, although it's not hard to imagine it being the case. I think it's to be expected, what are you supposed to do about it? Should you ignore the actions of Israel, because it's associated with Jews? Or actions of Russian government, because someone could discriminate a Russian person over that? Or what happens in some Islamic country? And we're fine with talking about about "systemic white supremacy", so I find these concerns to be hypocritical frankly. I also don't believe that pretending like the virus didn't originate in China would help anything. People might be stupid, but they're smart enough to figure out that this is just BS.

[croon]

> But we're not in disagreement that the positions switched at some point, right?

I think we are in disagreement. I don't remember such a switch, nor can identify one browsing backwards.

> I think it's to be expected, what are you supposed to do about it? Should you ignore the actions of Israel, because it's associated with Jews? Or actions of Russian government, because someone could discriminate a Russian person over that? Or what happens in some Islamic country?

I doubt everyone in Israel agrees with the decisions of the state of Israel, just as half of Americans don't agree with any current administration. Even further beyond that you shouldn't equate every jew with Israel, just as you shouldn't every muslim with Iran.

Talking about China as it relates to covid is fine. Calling it "chinavirus" (repeatedly) has no practical benefit, and is only used as a polemic.

> And we're fine with talking about about "systemic white supremacy", so I find these concerns to be hypocritical frankly.

I don't equate every white person with white supremacy, including myself. I don't see the hypocrisy.

[ttt0]

> I think we are in disagreement. I don't remember such a switch, nor can identify one browsing backwards.

Well, I definitely remember left-leaning people ridiculing it when people were buying out the toilet paper, saying that there is no virus and stuff.

> I don't equate every white person with white supremacy, including myself. I don't see the hypocrisy.

And I don't equate every Chinese person with the virus or the Chinese government. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the criticism is that the narrative or the words you use, even if factually correct, might cause some people to have prejudice against the members of a certain group. You're (maybe not you specifically, I don't know) concerned about backlash against Chinese people over the virus, but you aren't concerned about the backlash against white people over systemic racism theory. That's what I find hypocritical.

But yeah, "china virus" might be a little bit over the top.

[croon]

> Well, I definitely remember left-leaning people ridiculing it when people were buying out the toilet paper, saying that there is no virus and stuff.

I didn't even realize buying up toilet paper during early pandemics was partisan, but I definitely remember memes about how inconsiderate it is to buy up years worth of toilet paper at once, emptying the cache for everyone else with no indication that toilet paper manufacturing was affected. I admit I made fun of this too, but drew no political association to it. It had nothing to do with (the existence of) the virus.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the criticism is that the narrative or the words you use, even if factually correct, might cause some people to have prejudice against the members of a certain group.

Yeah, I guess, but I don't think there's any valid and accurate criticism that would lead anyone to blame random Chinese people.

> You're (maybe not you specifically, I don't know) concerned about backlash against Chinese people over the virus, but you aren't concerned about the backlash against white people over systemic racism theory. That's what I find hypocritical.

I haven't experienced any backlash against white people for any and all systemic racism built by other white people. I still do not see your point.

[ttt0]

I don't think there really should be any political association to the virus in general, it just so happened that the issue divided itself along the partisan lines as usual. The buying out toilet paper was just to give you the time frame, that's when overall people were being ridiculed over concerns about the virus. Personal anecdote, one somewhat heavily left-leaning friend we know was insisting on a meeting and we got laughed at when we refused, because we were afraid of virus.

> I haven't experienced any backlash against white people for any and all systemic racism built by other white people. I still do not see your point.

And I'm really glad you didn't. Not every Chinese experienced any backlash either. That's great for them too. But not everyone was so fortunate. Example from a BLM protest: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5ebji8

[overrun11]

Vox downplayed Covid in a tweet in the typical smug liberal style: https://www.thewrap.com/vox-deletes-january-tweet-coronaviru.... I remember many left-leaning friends citing this ridiculous article about how the flu is worse than Covid: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/01/29/8008132....

I can't scroll to find the original tweets but many Trump loyalists were very early on the Covid concerns– while the left was ridiculing any concern with articles like what I linked above. See https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/coronavirus-mik... and https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/why-some-early-maga-.... Tucker Carlson talked constantly about the Covid from very early on as well.

[croon]

I don't know if that NPR article has been edited, but the only thing it's saying is that in january 2020 there was low risk of contracting covid compared to a regular flu, not that the virus was less dangerous, which at the time seems accurate.

From your vanityfair link:

> As Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and much of the GOP parroted the president’s no-worries line, MAGA originals like Steve Bannon and Mike Cernovich sounded the alarm.

I did notice the difference in Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity coverage, but you're right, there seems to have been a split within the grouping. Seeing as how many on the right are Trump loyalists (to a fault), that was the generalization I was drawing.

Yeah, the Vox one is bad.

[myfavoritedog]

I think we are in disagreement. I don't remember such a switch, nor can identify one browsing backwards.

Concerns about COVID were being cast as "racist" by the Left and the media (but I repeat myself) in the beginning: https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-denies-she-downplayed-coronavi...

https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1246131288664408064

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZ0Ruh89f0

If you don't remember that, then you should question your information sources. I remember the accusations of racism online quite vividly as I voiced my concerns in early February that people should start taking precautions: buying quarantine supplies, PPE, etc.

Tucker Carlson had some early reports on COVID and was attacked for fear-mongering by his usual left-leaning political opponents.

[croon]

> https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1246131288664408064

This is Fauci (serving under Trump) saying in January 2020 that he didn't think it was a threat, or am I missing something?

Are you saying that a then Trump official, now Biden official was speaking out of partisanship?

> I remember the accusations of racism online quite vividly as I voiced my concerns in early February that people should start taking precautions: buying quarantine supplies, PPE, etc.

I stocked up on ~3-4 weeks worth of supplies too, and replenished bi-weekly since early february, as well as many of my friends, neither of whom politicised it.

> Tucker Carlson had some early reports on COVID and was attacked for fear-mongering by his usual left-leaning political opponents.

Do you mean his fellow network hosts?

https://i.insider.com/5e5959a6fee23d09e47eae94?width=951&for...

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/imag...