[ggamecrazy]

Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta.

I always chalked up reliability as a function of new tech introduction + focus on reliability. I figured Porsche gets decent numbers because of how relatively low-tech they are and the ridiculous prices they charge for optioning-in that tech (basic things like ACC or memory seats).

Is there something else organizationally, process or product wise that Porsche does differently than the VW group? I do know that they have a separate factory w/ seperate engineering departments (:cough VW engineers design Lamborghini's).

1: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png

[benjohnson]

I kid you not - Porsche copied Toyota and the Toyota Production System for good effect.

https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2018/10/08/porsche-and-lean-ma...

[ggamecrazy]

Curious if this is just marketing from Porsche. Makes no sense why VW wouldn't adopt the system for similar effects. I'm not sure I buy the reasoning but I'll keep a open mind.

[Glawen]

Everyone one copied the Toyota production system

[benjohnson]

It's fair to say GM did copy it well in the Saturn experiment, but failed to bring it fully to the whole company. VW can't help themselves from making complicated things. Honda is onboard, but Nissan still thinks in terms of supply side and will churn out garbage to meet next quarter targets.

That being said, Tesla went back to early Ford for the full top-down flow system - and it's working for them. So while I love the TPS system and use it in my company, I'm willing to keep on learning.

[rodgerd]

> Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta.

Reliability was always a selling point for Porsches relative to their competitor. You could buy a 308 and be constantly fixing it, or a 911 and (so long as you didn't put it in a ditch) you'd have an everyday driver.

The fact that it's dropping suggests that they're feeling the effects of VW's ownership, crapping their designs up.

[radicaldreamer]

Porsche has a bifurcated product offering... their sports lineup is extremely reliable, but their SUVs and more mainstream products are certainly not (these also tend to have brand new equipment which doesn't filter to the 911 for years)

[tibbydudeza]

Flat boxer engines in the sportscars are their own design - if it is V6 in the SUV's then it is Audi/VW.

[ethbr0]

Porsche sports also spend a ton of time racing, at various levels, which I'd imagine back permeates into the corporate culture and increases reliability.

There's a lot of weaknesses that show up a lot quicker when you're holding an engine at redline.

[rasz]

Dont know about that score, is that self reported? There is plenty wrong with Porsches, with their glued cooling line recalls, where glue degrades and lets go with age, and on some models (Macan?) this means cooling fluid spewing directly at your front brake disks and tires. Then you have electronics routinely going haywire. At least you dont have to worry about IMS bearings anymore.

[Glawen]

I know engineers who worked for Porsche, they are doing things independently from VW. The only thing they took from VW was the cayenne chassis and it's diesel engine. They were absolutely pissed by the diesel gate as they were unaware of it and quickly removed diesel from their lineup.

They share some functions like brake SW or ACC, but they do their own engine and chassis.

Otherwise they source their stuff alone, and due to the low sales number they struggle to find willing suppliers.

[wampwampwhat]

I have no evidence to support this, but I'd theorize that some of it has to do with enthusiast owners (porsche) keeping up with recommended maintenance intervals, while budget owners (vw) and ignorant owners (audi) skip maintenance, causing nightmares down the line.

[TheCapn]

That's exactly the sentiment being shared on the reddit thread I just came here from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/nr4awu/which_expensiv...

As a personal anecdote: my 2003 VW (1.8T GTI) had 330,000km when I sold it to a friend (it continues to run strong, but not sure the KMs). I did all the work myself and I did it on time. Biggest repair was AC Compressor, the rest was just routine maintenance and a couple $50 sensors. If a CEL came on I addressed it as soon as possible. At the same time, I had a friend with a similar year Jetta TDI which lit on fire around the 290k mark. Every time I was in her car the CEL was on, and I remember driving it home on a road trip once where you'd hold the pedal to the floor the whole way just to keep it at the highway speed limit.

[ed_balls]

What the score? (paywall)

[ggamecrazy]

Sorry! Here it is: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png

Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta.

TBH some of ranking on the list makes anecdotal sense (Toyota is #2). Others do not (Mazda as #1?!).

I'm questioning Consumer Reports methodology, how far back do they look? If it's only a sliding window of <3yrs I do not believe thats enough data.