[MagnumOpus]

If Nato didn't exist, Western Europe could focus on building defending forces against Russia rather than spending their defense budget on expeditionary forces that need to tag along on American-led adventures like Iraq or Afghanistan.

[iab]

How would they effectively do that though without the cover of the US nuclear umbrella?

[bradleyjg]

You really think Germany couldn’t build all the nuclear weapons they wanted to?

[iab]

I do think that - how would you go about testing them with a nuclear test-ban treaty in place?

* Assuming that Germany remains responsible and doesn’t go NK route. Maybe that’s not reasonable.

* also assume we are talking about modern thermonuclear weapons