[codingdave]

I feel like it is just the concept of the vocal minority. People who are seeing the world go their way tend to just enjoy the ride. People who don't like how it is going tend to be quite vocal about their displeasure. Minority opinions can be quite loud, in any aspect of our society.

Personally, I want to respect our differences. I support people figuring out where they want to work and finding companies who let them do so. We don't all have the same desires, and we should not expect everyone to want the same thing. I do believe that companies will have to support the desires of their workers more than they have in the past, and hopefully that will be well balanced with what people really want.

[swiley]

WFH is an instant 13-20% raise for most people because they're not compensated for the commute. The same economic effect that results in SWEs being paid well above minimum wage will also result in widespread remote work.

If you like socializing you can still do that, in fact you can do more of it since you're not spending an hour or two every day in a car, alone.

[darkwater]

I don't know where you live but you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side. And there are people who likes to physically separate their personal life from their work life. And I'm a pre-pandemic remote worker who used to work in the office, and I can see the good and the bad sides of both positions. I don't really understand why WFH enthusiasts are usually so radical on this topic.

[zimpenfish]

> I don't really understand why WFH enthusiasts are usually so radical on this topic.

I venture that it's partially down to years of "NO, WFH would RUIN the business and CATASTROPHISE us into BANKRUPTCY!!!" from businesses when people requested it and ... it turned out to be bullshit, everything pretty much worked ok when everyone was WFH, and people are not minded to let business slip back into their previous bullshit without a fight.

[citizenpaul]

I was at one of those places. The owner,board,Upper mgmt would have a hissy fit (sometimes literally) when anyone requested any sort of work from home condition. Declaring (sometimes screaming) that the business would go under nothing would get done, ect,ect.. They couldn't manage things that way. Even though we would often go months without hearing from any of these aforementioned people.

Then the Thanos *snap happened and one day we all had to be WFH almost overnight. What changed? Literally nothing except better more humane working conditions. Everything got done business is still fine.

So are some of us bitter about it? Definitely.

[the_gipsy]

No, it's not WFH enthusiasts being radical, it's both sides. It's just an extremely polarizing topic.

Managers must understand this and simply work it out for both sides. It's not hard, really.

[TeMPOraL]

> I don't really understand why WFH enthusiasts are usually so radical on this topic.

WFH in general, now? Overton window. It's probably our one and only opportunity to shift it to include WFH as a standard practice in companies. Before, remote opportunities were very scarce, and were mostly tied around contracting. The pandemic briefly normalized WFH, but there's plenty of interests - powerful interests - gearing to get back to office work as soon as legally allowed. WFH enthusiasts try to counter that pressure, in a desperate attempt to make WFH stick.

> you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side

Yeah, but even for the most environmentally conscious, personal time is still the most scarce commodity. Commuting by bus or bicycle is better than by car, but no commute at all is better than any of this. Public transport lets you make partial use of commute time; lack of commute gives you that time back.

And then not having to commute opens up geographical flexibility - you can suddenly work for a company in a different city, or in a different country. This is a well-covered topic, but there's another flip side to it, which makes some WFH people "radical": if their company pulls the plug on WFH now, it'll severely mess up their lives.

Personal example: I've been contracting remotely for a foreign company (started pre-pandemic), and due to various reasons, that contract got turned into FTE in a local company... with offices 400km from where I live. One which didn't, until pandemic, practice remote work. So I'm keenly tracking any and all discussions about work policies, because if they were to return to pre-pandemic policies, I'd have to uproot my life or change jobs. And I don't want to change my job, I really like the team and the work. So you can imagine I'm sensitive about this.

[swiley]

Sure that's the case in most of the world, but in the US you're spending an hour and a half alone in a car unless you've structured your life around avoiding that.

[andrei_says_]

Yes absolutely. Commuting does not automatically cause socializing.

Commuting causes back pain, exhaustion, pollution and lots of traffic. Oh, and traffic accidents. 100% of my 2 traffic accidents were during commuting.

[anthropodie]

Let people choose where they want to work from!

Now if people who want to work from office find themselves in empty office then they need to adapt to this new paradigm shift the same way rest of us adapted to loud open offices where anyone can walk up to anyone and interrupt the flow.

Some people adapt to whatever reality is while others force their responsibility of adaptation on their peers/environment.

[soco]

This is already an extreme view: why should the office be empty? Unless the company is 2 people, there's a good chance the socialite is not alone, and most people aren't 100% committed in either direction anyway. The solution could be actually trivial: poll the employees preferences, rent a smaller office space, use an online scheduler for office time, there we go.