[skystarman]

FUnny you leave out the part where he also said if you criticize a woman in the lab they cry...

He made a terribly misogynistic "joke" and paid the consequences for it.

You'd think someone with a Nobel prize wouldn't be so clueless

[prepend]

> FUnny you leave out the part where he also said if you criticize a woman in the lab they cry...

Do you think women in the lab, when criticized, are more likely, less likely, or equally likely to cry?

Is the scientist’s comment mean spirited, or sexist, or just an observation?

I think it’s important to consider what the intent behind these jokes are. The Wikipedia article calls out statements from 29 other scientists that note how women (and men) were advanced within his lab and outside his lab.

So if this person thinks that the women he’s worked with cry when criticized, so we not want him to say that? It seems more like the goal should be to not stigmatize crying as that seems pretty reasonable for all genders, rather than to stigmatize talking about crying.

[whatshisface]

The rule is really simple: it makes people uncomfortable when you make generalizations about natural traits shared by the group they're in. Period. All groups (even groups people feel proud to be a part of), and all generalizations, even ones that sound positive or don't apply to the listener. I'm not going to list examples but if you're having a hard time thinking of them just imagine overhearing a conversation at a coffee shop about "those <something you are>, they're always <something you do or don't do>."

[zozbot234]

> it makes people uncomfortable when you make generalizations about natural traits shared by the group they're in.

It does not make everyone uncomfortable, obviously. I thought we were not supposed to resort to stereotypes.

[skystarman]

"WHen making terribly misogynistic comments his INTENT wasn't to be misogynistic, it's just based on his experience that women are driven primarily by their emotions and unable to handle pressure!"

Really solid defense!

[prepend]

I’m not defending him and it’s funny you think this is some pro/con situation.

That being said misogyny requires intent, right. It means someone who hates or dislikes women. So if you make a statement that every time you criticize a woman, she cries and don’t have ill intent toward women, then that isn’t a sign of misogyny.

I don’t think women are any more likely to cry than men, but if there’s research that shows it so, is that misogynistic?

If you say “women are shorter than men” is that misogynistic?

I think it largely depends on intent as if someone is trying to demean women or does hate women, that’s a big difference. Saying women are shorter than men as part of some overall argument on inferiority is clearly misogynistic.

[skystarman]

That misogyny or bigotry requires "intent" is so ludicrously divorced from reality I don't know where it came from.

I've heard the most ridiculously hateful and racist things prefaced by "I'm not a racist but..."

Clearly in these people's own minds they aren't racist/misogynist, but when you are pushing plainly racist or misogynistic views it doesn't matter.

The statements are misogynistic. If you think you can convince your boss your intent wasn't to be bigoted so your bigoted comments aren't actually bigoted then be my guess. I am confident you are unlikely to succeed.

[prepend]

I’m talking about misogyny, not all bigotry.

The definition of misogyny literally includes intent, perhaps you’re thinking of something other than misogyny.

Here’s the definition from Wikipedia [0]… “ Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. It enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it.”

You also didn’t answer my question of what negative information you wouldn’t interpret as misogynistic. Is it possible to report anything negative based on biological sex or gender that you don’t interpret as misogynistic?

How can these differences be studied and discussed to learn more and overcome harm caused toward women?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny