[josephg]

> He classified his work as engineering and everything else as plumbing. That is condescending.

Most real world programming work kind of is plumbing though? We take data from over here and put it over there. We build pipes. And for good, sensible reasons, most of the pipes we make use standard fittings (REST, JSON, etc).

This is the whole point of this thread - you don't need to be good at leetcode questions to do this sort of work. I agree with that and I think we're all on the same page here.

Leetcode tests something else. That other thing is also a real skillset. I hear you that calling it engineering is condescending. But I still wish we had a good name for it..?

[cloverich]

no... i’ve worked with a fair number of leet code all stars at startups and they are rarely capable programmers in a product development sense (taken in isolation). I would say the reason the plumber vs engineer analogy is condescending is the implication that non algo work operates with well defined problems and criteria and rarely requires any engineering. my experience has been the opposite. To solve problems effectively and pragmatically it requires understanding the system constraints in addition to the people constraints. Generally speaking even identifying the key problem and constraints is a relatively rare skill, much less selecting a solution that fits the people, budget, and timelines. I’ve since realized it’s that most software developers — algo skills or not — are simply not great engineers. Having accomplished anything rigorous like leet code helps (demonstrates diligence and effort), although it is still no substitute for a history of shipping working software and personally even if i’m tasked with interviewing a candidate using an algo whiteboard, i don’t do it.

[username90]

Engineers are rarely good plumbers.