[nickik]

Go calculated the battery need for these 400k/year and try to understand that industry.

And Tesla is building a factory that is equally designed to build that many trucks and the vertically integrate it with a huge battery factory likely even cathode manufacturing and lithium hydroxide production.

The last Ford CEO (not that long ago) still believed Ford didn't even need a battery partnership. And the new CEO has been scrambling like crazy to get a partnership and they want to build a plant but that is still quite far away.

> Unlike Tesla, Ford designed the Lightning with the actual input of the people who would use it

And you know that how?

> People who go off-road absolutely want better clearance; it's one of the most popular aftermarket modifications made to off-road vehicles. On that front, the Cybertruck has relatively poor experience for a truck (but would for right in with a Subaru wagon).

And that modification costs fair amount of money I would bet. The fact is the experience you get for the money is better. And comparing it to a Subaru wagon just tells me you are not actually serious, you just a hater.

[gamblor956]

Ford has quite wisely chosen to let the battery experts make the batteries for them, and is using scale to drive down the costs of their batteries below what Tesla can achieve through vertical integration. Moreover, by not competing with the battery makers, Ford can always choose the best battery available when it comes time to sign new contracts, and isn't stuck with whatever technology their CEO is promoting on Twitter.

And the new CEO has been scrambling like crazy to get a partnership and they want to build a plant but that is still quite far away.

Ford's EV truck facility is already complete and is in pre-production trials to iron out kinks in the manufacturing lines. It is scheduled to begin mass production by the end of the summer. And unlike Tesla, Ford hits its timelines.

And you know that how?

I'm part of the crowd of people who would use it. And I talk to people, online and off, in the hiking, trail running, mountain biking, and aquatics, and off-roading communities. The interest in the Lightning in these groups is huge. People even cancelled their orders for Subarus when the Lightning dropped. In contrast, the Cybertruck is viewed as a joke: a truck that can't be used for hauling, can't be used for work, and can't be used for any outdoor activities; in short, a truck that can't be used as a truck unless you think a truck just sits in a driveway or a parking spot.

And that modification costs fair amount of money I would bet. The fact is the experience you get for the money is better. And comparing it to a Subaru wagon just tells me you are not actually serious, you just a hater.

No, lifting a car is generally less than $1000.

The fact is the experience you get for the money is better.

A Tesla interior is about the same quality as a 90's era KIA. Or in other words, it's the worst in the industry at almost any price level. And yes, I have ridden in every model of Tesla, including the original hand-made Tesla Roadsters.

And comparing it to a Subaru wagon just tells me you are not actually serious, you just a hater.

You're right, I was being very unfair to Subaru. Their wagons (the Outback and Crosstrek) have superior off-road capabilities compared to the Model Y or the expected capabilities of the Cybertruck. And the Subarus have nicer interiors. And better range. And better warranties. And are easier to get repaired. And are way cheaper.

[nickik]

> Ford has quite wisely chosen to let the battery experts make the batteries for them, and is using scale to drive down the costs of their batteries below what Tesla can achieve through vertical integration.

So did Tesla for 15 years and in that time they build a huge amount of knowledge and worked together with Panasonic on improving their cells. They learned a huge amount, hired many experts, bought a number of technology companies and are bringing things to production that literally nobody else has managed yet. They actually did the hard work of bringing university ideas into mass production.

Your claim that Tesla simply can not achieve the lower prices is your assumption that is based on nothing. Not having to pay for the profit of the cell maker alone is a huge part of the cost.

Ford has to buy on the very contested open market because their former CEO failed to set up a partnership. So in fact its very likely that they pay some of the highest amount by any of the major car manufactures. And of course so far they are a tiny part of the market while Tesla is by far the market leader.

Tesla simply buys far, far higher volume then Ford and will continue to do so.

> Moreover, by not competing with the battery makers, Ford can always choose the best battery available when it comes time to sign new contracts, and isn't stuck with whatever technology their CEO is promoting on Twitter.

Tesla is continuing to buy lots of cells from battery makers and they will continue to increase that. Tesla is the largest costumers of 2 of the 3 largest battery makers in the world.

The idea that Ford who has tiny volume will somehow get better prices then Tesla is nonsense. Tesla also has long term supply contracts for the raw materials that they locked in years ago while Ford is fully exposed to the raising market in raw materials.

> I'm part of the crowd of people who would use it. And I talk to people, online and off, in the hiking, trail running, mountain biking, and aquatics, and off-roading communities. The interest in the Lightning in these groups is huge. People even cancelled their orders for Subarus when the Lightning dropped. In contrast, the Cybertruck is viewed as a joke: a truck that can't be used for hauling, can't be used for work, and can't be used for any outdoor activities; in short, a truck that can't be used as a truck unless you think a truck just sits in a driveway or a parking spot.

So here is my problem with your argument. You simply say thing, based on literally wrong facts. Tesla Cybertruck has significantly better performance for hauling, loading and range at the same price. And a far, far higher top level specs. If you seriously want to haul something long distance the top range CB is far beyond anything the F-150 can do.

Its absolutely simply wrong to claim the CB can be used for outdoor activities or work. Like, this is just an opinion that you have that you have absolutely no factual bases for.

Talking to people who are not equally not informed and have formed their opinion on pictures and maybe a few confused news articles is simply not a valid source of information.

[rootusrootus]

> you just a hater

Just stop