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by eyelidlessness 1857 days ago
No, I don’t think that’s reasonable. In the spirit of “It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer”, I don’t think adding more legal liability serves anyone. Moreover, it serves even less people who already have few resources to redress wrongs.

It’s not like this concept of “mob ruined my life” is some new concept, it’s something victims of abuse experience or withhold their stories to avoid, and have forever.

Remember when this claim was made about a now sitting SCOTUS justice? His life had been ruined? Not at all. But at least one of his accusers was so afraid for her life that she went into hiding. Imagine how much more dangerous it would be for her if she were legally penalized for “ruining his life”, which she didn’t do, but absolutely became a part of the anti-cancel-culture script. Imagine how that could be abused by someone in such a high place of power.

People who’ve been hurt by others don’t need to be legally scrutinized for saying so. If it’s in the court of public opinion, the truth comes out. We know this because the few cases where people lie are always repeated by people motivated to penalize truth telling.

I’m afraid to name people who’ve hurt me here, people no one on HN knows, because I fear retribution. Adding the possibility that I might be tangled up in years of legal battles I can’t afford simply for saying what happened is utterly terrifying to me. And that’s coming from a place of relative privilege where I don’t expect half the danger other accusers might expect.

No. There should not be legal penalties for describing abuse without legal proof.

3 comments

> No. There should not be legal penalties for describing abuse without legal proof.

This also means, by definition, that there are no legal penalties for lying about abuse without legal proof.

If you piss off the wrong person, they can now stalk you on the Internet “warning people” about how you’re a sexual predator.

No evidence, no way to get them to stop. Better hope you don’t anger someone with a lot of followers. What a shitty world.

So is there any point at which you would say it matters whether an accusation is true or not? Is it only if there’s a criminal investigation?

> People who’ve been hurt by others don’t need to be legally scrutinized for saying so.

The point is that not every person who makes an accusation is someone who has been hurt by others. If there is no scrutiny allowed, how are we supposed to tell which is which? You're looking at this from the perspective of the person making the accusation, where you can know with certainty that is true. Someone on the outside doesn't have that ability.

> So is there any point at which you would say it matters whether an accusation is true or not? Is it only if there’s a criminal investigation?

It always matters whether an accusation is true. Penalizing accusers doesn’t produce fewer false accusations. It discourages true accusations.

> You're looking at this from the perspective of the person making the accusation, where you can know with certainty that is true. Someone on the outside doesn't have that ability.

You’ve completely misunderstood my perspective. I’m looking at it from the perspective of the person afraid to make an accusation.

Nobody is saying we should penalize people for making accusations. Being asked to substantiate your claims is not a penalty. It should be understood that people will ask that when you make a public claim, especially if you are asking for something to happen as a result of that claim.

I'm not sure what we gain by encouraging people to make unprovable accusations. From the outside perspective, people will be predisposed to believe one way or another, and in the absence of any evidence they'll just go to their predispositions and a lot of irrelevant argument will take place back and forth with no possible resolution, because there is no real evidence. Why is this helpful or desirable?

> Penalizing accusers doesn’t produce fewer false accusations. It discourages true accusations.

Why would the rate of true accusations go down while the rate of false accusations remain the same? My intuition is that they'd both go down, with false accusations decreasing more than true accusations.

> Remember when this claim was made about a now sitting SCOTUS justice?

Remember, indeed?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27299548

This is absurd. The “mob” that “ruined” his life did no such thing. Multiple accusers had credible accounts, media did scrutinize their accounts and determined that one wasn’t credible while others were. He wasn’t “cancelled”, he has a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the most powerful country in all human history. This “mob” theory is ridiculous. Yet one of his accusers was so afraid for her life she went into hiding. This is exactly why I’m opposed to penalizing accusers.
> Multiple accusers had credible accounts, media did scrutinize their accounts and determined that one wasn’t credible while others were.

Like?