[bombela]

I tend to pick and measure a piece of wood before turning my saw and cutting.

I say that I am cutting the wood. But I select it first before marking it and cutting it.

I noticed that I use the visual mode of vim a lot. With easy motion to highlight words or other object boundaries to quickly jump to.

I tried kakoune and liked it. But after 15y of (neo)vim it's hard to change. That plus how good You completeMe is for vim.

[addicted]

Well, the reality is that WYSIWYG editing of all sorts is object oriented. You first select the object and then the action.

So it’s not clear whether being more comfortable with selecting an object and then performing an action on it is innately easier for humans, or just what we’ve been conditioned to from using word processors, spreadsheets, or even GUI based file explorers.

But if you look at command line usage, it’s the opposite. Every command first requires you to stare the command, and then the object to act on.

I first type cd and then the folder I want to change directory to, compared to selecting the folder and then hitting enter/CMD+O/double clicking ont he GUI.

But people who have used both the GUI and CMD line rarely ever find the order of operation to be a concern for them, so I suspect the object-verb verb-object difference in vim is just a matter of convenience.

[bombela]

I do woodworking and construction work. In real life, I always must select first. Apply action second. So to me this feels more natural.

[addicted]

I think you’re overestimating how well real life actions map to the object/verb dichotomy.

So you’d say that it’s object first because you first get the wood and saw and then decide to saw the wood with it.

I could argue it’s verb first because you first GET the wood and saw.

I’m not saying that I’m right and you’re wrong. In fact, quite the opposite. My point is that I don’t think real life actions can be broken cleanly into object-verb or verb-object, in the first place.

[pessimizer]

"I need to GET something. I know, I'll GET some WOOD."

"I need some WOOD. I think I'll GET some WOOD."

[jrek]

I think this supports the point - in either case the syntax for the action is 'get wood'.

[ZoomZoomZoom]

This whole back and forth in this subthread is ridiculous. People are comparing command syntax (not even a proper PL) with natural language syntax. First one is used to define actions first and foremost, and the second one to describe them.

How we formulate our actions in our head/speech to describe them is mostly irrelevant here.

[bashinator]

I have an almost entirely non-visual imagination and internal narrative. Vi and then vim were pretty easy to adopt, and it’s still easy for me to learn new editor-as-a-language functionality. I started using it in the 90s and only figured out the visual stuff in the past few years (for block editing).

[bombela]

That is maybe the key point here. I am the total opposite of you. A friend of mine is like you and he thrives in vim.

[bashinator]

I think it's a wonderful thing that the IT ecosystem has created such a variety of different tool methodologies converging on the same purpose. It seems analogous to convergent evolution in biology.