[sweetheart]

> this sort of emphasis on skin tone seems like a very recent phenomenon at least in the scope of my lifetime.

This sounds like something that could only be true of a white person. It reminds of me of how I was horrified to learn that one of my gay friends had to deal with someone calling them the F slur once, and my friend said I was only surprised because I don't personally deal with homophobic slurs on a regular basis.

There has always been extraordinary emphasis on skin tone, it's just that more and more non-POC folks are starting to see it bit by bit.

[throwaway894345]

> There has always been extraordinary emphasis on skin tone

No doubt this is true in some strict sense depending on how you define "extraordinary", but in whatever sense this is true I don't think it's very informative. Namely, while (esp in the US) there is a deep history of racism, to say that it has always been this way is pretty much untrue--American views on race (including the importance placed on race) have changed a lot throughout history, and while racism has never utterly disappeared, it's perfectly correct to note that the emphasis placed on race in the 90s and 2000s was much lower than the most recent decade.

Indeed, Google NGram corroborates this. Note the date range is 1990-2019 because ngram doesn't offer 2020 or 2021 data--though I strongly suspect the upward trend continues in 2020. Note also that I used "americans" as a suffix in all cases to disambiguate "white" and "black" which come up in a lot of non-racial contexts.

* "White Americans" https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=white+american...

* "Black Americans" https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=black+american...

* "Asian Americans" https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=asian+american...

So I don't really buy into the "we've always been this obsessed about race; whites are just mysteriously unable to perceive it" argument. In general, people are often surprised that the variation within a race far exceeds the variation between races, and specifically that "people of color" do not have the views (on race or otherwise) ascribed to them by the popular media.

[sweetheart]

People writing about race more does not mean that race is necessarily playing a larger role in the various operations of society, it just means the myriad ways it affects society are being discussed more.

Race has always played this large a role, people just say it in books more. Our subconscious biases can reign supreme and yet never be discussed anywhere.

EDIT: There is also nothing mysterious about white people having a much harder time picking up on racism. You're making it seem like this mystical hippy-dippy nonsense. It's instead very simple: if you're white you won't often (ever) be the target of racism, so you'll have a skewed perception of how common and powerful it is. No mystery here, friend.

[throwaway894345]

> People writing about race more does not mean that race is necessarily playing a larger role in the various operations of society, it just means the myriad ways it affects society are being discussed more.

Indeed, ngram isn’t conclusive proof that our society (or rather, certain elements there within) are race obsessed. But my claim is only that certain elements of society have become possessed by race, not that they have succeeded in restructuring society according to their segregationist designs.

> Race has always played this large a role, people just say it in books more.

I don’t think there’s any evidence for that, and there’s significant evidence that the role race plays has gone down considerably (we don’t have expressly racist policies like we did in the 60s and earlier, we don’t tolerate racist memes in the entertainment media, being perceived as a racist is the among the worst social offenses, etc). Note that there is no dichotomy between advocating for further progress and acknowledging the progress that has been made.

> Our subconscious biases can reign supreme and yet never be discussed anywhere.

And yet the evidence for subconscious bias is virtually nil. The implicit association test, long hailed to be proof of subconscious bias, turns out to be bunk and little additional evidence exists.

> There is also nothing mysterious about white people having a much harder time picking up on racism. You're making it seem like this mystical hippy-dippy nonsense. It's instead very simple: if you're white you won't often (ever) be the target of racism, so you'll have a skewed perception of how common and powerful it is. No mystery here, friend.

The idea that our society has always been this race-obsessed and white people are just unable to pick up on it is racist nonsense, and there is no evidence which supports it. Indeed, all evidence corroborates the hypothesis that our race obsession is a phenomenon that developed in the last 10 years. No need to gaslight the white folks. :)

[sweetheart]

It’s the anniversary of George Floyd’s murder, which sparked the largest ever protests seen in this country over the racist tendencies of of this country. One of the important take aways of those protests is understanding that these murders are not uncommon, but a part of what it means to be black in America. This has been the case for centuries. As long as we can safely say that the United States has an extremely racist past, it’s fair to say that skin tone has played a huge role in society.

How can you say that race’s role in the US has only recently become so large when there have been lynchings in the recent past, and it was legal to own someone who was black?

Surely we can consider those things as instances of skin tone being taken into consideration, no?

[throwaway894345]

> How can you say that race’s role in the US has only recently become so large when there have been lynchings in the recent past, and it was legal to own someone who was black?

That's easy--I never said anything remotely like this. :) I quite explicitly scoped my claim to "within my lifetime". Indeed, everyone knows that race played a big factor in our nation's history. We made a lot of progress away from racial ideologies following the civil rights movement, and while the work isn't complete it doesn't follow that we should double down on different racial ideologies.

> One of the important take aways of those protests is understanding that these murders are not uncommon, but a part of what it means to be black in America.

I don't think that's remotely an appropriate takeaway. By all appearances, violent crime rates account for the disparity in police killings, which are indeed rare regardless of race (contrary to your "not uncommon" claim). Indeed, last time I dug into the WashPo police shootings database and filtered out all instances in which the deceased was wielding a weapon, the disparity virtually disappeared.

Further, while we're all familiar with the myriad cases of unjust police killings of black Americans, there are plenty of cases of white people heinously murdered by police which were never elevated by the media. Consider [Daniel Shaver][0], [Tony Timpa][1], and [Justine Damond][2] (all killed by police within a year or so of each other). Of course, people always say "they didn't get national attention because they weren't killed for their race" which is of course begging the question since the only evidence that George Floyd or whomever was killed for his race is the presumed lack of notable cases of white people being killed by police.

To the extent that fear of police is "part of what it means to be black in America", it appears to be a largely manufactured or vestigial fear.

The only appropriate conclusions to draw are:

1. the United States has a police brutality problem (irrespective of race)

2. that black citizens are more likely to commit crimes than citizens of other races--presumably for historical reasons--leading to a disparity in police killings of black citizens

3. the media will absolutely sow divisiveness on a nationwide scale for clicks

[0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/a-polic... [1]: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/tony-timpa-suffered-the-... [2]: https://www.startribune.com/australian-woman-justine-damond-...