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by asattarmd 1848 days ago
The worst: pressing Enter to rename a file in finder. Command + Down arrow to open it. WTF!
7 comments

Command-up arrow moves up a directory level. Command-down arrow makes a logical choice for moving down a directory level, and since moving down a directory is the same as opening that directory, it follows command down would also open a file.

Whether renaming as “enter” is a good shortcut or not, I think the navigation ones are perfectly reasonable in that if you learn one of them, it’s opposite is easily guessed.

So true, this is a bizarre choice that tells the user that renaming a folder is more important and more frequent than navigating. It makes keyboard navigating in the Finder pretty annoying (unless you only live in column view, which feels very claustrophobic to me). IMO the Finder has a bunch of bad UX, it’s like they never figured out what to do with it during the OSX transition, and then refused to improve it or do anything to it to change old behavior or take it closer to what any other OSes had done.
All it means is that to rename you press enter, and to open you press command-o. It works perfectly fine for keyboard navigation.

After using both for a long time (Windows for 30 years (!) and Mac OS for 16), I actually like the Mac OS way a bit better. In my usage renaming is a very common operation and I don't have F keys on my usual keyboard (renaming in Windows is F2).

I don't disagree with your opinion, there's nothing wrong with liking command-o for nav.

But what I mean is that Finder navigating uses an unintuitive key chord you have to learn, while renaming uses a single key, and a large and very common/obvious/intuitive one. This does in fact mean the UX is declaring which one they expect to be more common. I'm not saying renaming is uncommon, but for me it's nowhere near the usage of navigating into a folder. Are you saying you're renaming folders more often than browsing into them? (How do you get to the folder you want to rename?)

Both Windows and Linux GUI folder browsers use the Enter key to navigate, and so do many other tree browser UIs including our web browsers. It's very common and very reasonable to expect Enter to navigate to the thing you've selected. This expectation and ecosystem of navigating this way means that Mac's Finder stands out as different and unintuitive, even within a Mac-only set of applications. I love my Mac, and I've also used both Windows and Mac since they first existed ... both for 35 years. But today's Finder is definitely weird and anachronistic compared nearly all other modern file browsers.

I use Command+o to open a file and Command+p to print a file. It's also kinda handy to make a duplicate of a file using Command+d. Of course deleting a file is Command+Delete and ejecting a volume is Command+e. For consistency you'd think renaming a file would be Command+r but at some point in time (the first Mac?) they decided on expediency and made it Enter instead.
I don't know anyone that uses Cmd+Down. Cmd+O tends to be the popular choice.

Because you're always in an app in macOS, Cmd+O is the more consistent choice: every app you're in will use Cmd+O for "open." In Finder, what you're opening is apps or files, so it works.

Return for rename makes sense in a more subtle way.

Besides opening a file, there are two "main" actions you'll use in Finder: renaming files, and quick-playing files. In a dialogue box, you'll either use Return or Spacebar (the former for triggering the highlighted button, the latter for another button you highlight with the Tab key).

Consider again the consistency-across-apps argument. "Rename" isn't a super common command in all kinds of apps (a DAW will allow you to rename tracks, but that idea doesn't really apply to a text editor or IDE), so using Cmd+R in Finder for "rename" isn't necessarily great for consistency, considering that apps in general will almost surely bind something to Cmd+R ("run" or something like that).

Due to the aforementioned dialogue box pattern, Spacebar or Return are the obvious choices for rename, simply by virtue of being used so much.

Spacebar technically makes more sense because quick-play is adjacent to opening a file, but the ergonomics of "Spacebar = play" across so much media makes it the obvious choice for that. So, Return it is.

Macbooks don’t have an Enter key. They have a Return key, which is different: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47565/return-vs-en...
Oh thanks, that's fascinating, I thought they were the same thing. Reading the answers on that page, it sounds like there are quite a few programs in common use (e.g. Final Cut Pro) that treat ENTER and RETURN differently. I have both keys on this PC clone keyboard plugged into a Mac mini, so maybe I'll be able to use the numpad's ENTER for keyboard shortcuts. Thank you!
Your comment would have had more relevance 30 years ago but these days I think it's fine to use the terms interchangeably given 99.99999% of software these days use those keys interchangeably.
The worst in windows: Command+Down doesn’t open a folder, and Enter doesn’t rename it. WTF!
Enter _enters_ the file - shocker!
It says ‘Return’ on my keyboard, so “return the file”, return from where?

I’ve used macOS for 16 years, hitting enter/return still feels weird.

Mac user here. I've never given it much thought but you're right.

Return is a holdover from typewriters. It means "return the carriage to the left margin". I'm surprised the Mac keyboard doesn't say "Enter". It seems like a much more accurate word to describe what the button does.

Yes, "Return" applies in the context of editing text (return the cursor to left margin) but not in any other context on a computer I can think of.

I wonder why they continue to label it return and not enter.

/end random musing

edit: Downthread, someone provided a link to a StackOverflow page explaining how MacOS treats enter and return differently in some rare instances (it's program specific).

Windows has a Command key?
You can plug a mac keyboard into a Windows PC… I think you’re missing the joke though.
Hehe I've been on Mac minis for nearly 10 years now, always with a PC-clone keyboard: "Window key" is my CMD key.
This is one of my favorite things about it, really wish I could have the same behavior on Windows.