[proc0]

Sure, thanks for sharing your experience, it created a good discussion as a result.

You mention an identity crisis, which is what I was responding to, and it was suggesting to me there was some self-reflection going on. You mention human nature as well:

"You cannot win by fighting human nature. You win by embracing human nature"

Do we really know what human nature is? Do we really know the true nature of the human mind? Are we identical to our bodies? If we lose a limb, do we change our minds/identities?

These are largely unanswered questions, but to me it suggests mind over body. So from this perspective, maybe the body is weak at times, and this can be confused with our own identity if we're not careful. Check out David Goggins (he has several interviews on YT), if you're not already familiar with him.

[victorwho86]

Thanks, this is a really interesting discussion I am familiar with David Goggins. He is quite amazing. I think what he does in some ways is mind of human body, but in other ways is an expression of human nature.

Let me explain. I was probably not very clear in the post about this part on human nature. Homo Sapiens evolved to adapt to a certain environment. The 290,000 years before the Agricultural Revolution were spend in an environment quite different than the world today. We as a species are exquisitely adapted to survive and thrive in that environment. This is why we have conquered the Earth.

When I say human nature, I mean our biases, blindspots, logical fallacies that are adaptations to that environment. In essence a model of the world that still believes (unconsciously) we are in that past Paleolithic context. When I say fight human nature, I mean fight impulses that come from those adaptations. Impulses which are not beneficial now, such as being sedentary, but were in the past (when it was advantageous to conserve energy as much as possible).

My conclusion was that in the past I thought I could fight this past model (human nature). But now I realize it's not a game anybody can win, except for very short periods of time.

Rather I believe the solution is to change your environment and your model of the world, so that those unconscious biases (human nature) pushes you to behaviours which are beneficial.

To come back to the sedentarism example: instead of attempting to move from doing nothing to intense exercise 6 times per week (which is what everyone does), to make it a gradual habit: like at least 10 minutes of running at the same time every morning before your cup of coffee. This habit will naturally grow into a bigger habit. You are using your human nature to reach the outcome. In this case instant gratification (coffee after), habit formation (same trigger every day), overcoming resistance with minimum dose (only 10 minutes).

[proc0]

We'll have to disagree about human nature. I think humans have a powerful mind that has more control of the body than people realize.

"Homo Sapiens evolved to adapt to a certain environment. ... This is why we have conquered the Earth."

This sounds like a contradiction. Did we evolve for a specific environment, or did we conquer the globe with all its different environments? People live literally in every type of environment, from deserts, to mountains, to jungles, to very cold places. In every single case we have adapted.

Why are you saying it's so hard to adapt to new circumstances? It seems you are suggesting human nature is not as highly adaptable as it obviously is. We are creatures of adaptation.

> But now I realize it's not a game anybody can win, except for very short periods of time.

I think you're speaking for yourself here only, because there are plenty of examples of how this "nature" has been shattered into pieces. What were humans doing on the moon? Why are humans capable of meditating and fasting for days/weeks? Why are humans capable of extreme feats of athleticism that our ancestors would have never dreamed of. The list is very long.

Tying this in with the my first comment, if you think you don't have control, then for sure you will not, because you will block that possibility.

[victorwho86]

When I say a certain environment, I mean wild nature. The jungle and the mountains are more similar than the modern city. I suggest our biological adaptation cannot keep up with the rate of man-made change. The Internet dominates our lives now for example. But it did not exist 50 years ago. It took less than one generation. Biological adaptation needs many generations. The unconscious is made up of deep layers. It took millions of years to adapt to the wild environment.

When I say you cannot win, I mean daily habits. We achieve great things (like space travel) with our conscious knowledge: science accumulated over generations. But then at a daily level we do a lot of things which are self-harmful. These come from unconscious choices for survival that have the opposite effect today. Like exercise. Some people do extreme feats. Most struggle to do any exercise. What's the difference? The ones doing it a lot have a deep habit of exercise and adjusted their model of the world. Most who don't want to do it, are driven by the unconscious model that any energy conservation is advantageous.

You have lots of control. My argument is that willpower is not a brute force. You cannot force yourself to change. It only works for a short time. Rather that the key is to adjust your unconscious model and the environment so you change.