[omginternets]

>democratic worker ownership of the means of production

How does that manifest itself if not by the collective management of these means of production? I don't see how you can have "democratic worker ownership" of anything without institutionalized decision-making.

[halsom]

That is the question! But it would be mistaken to presume Marxists believe they have all the answers. Marxists have only determined that the working class has no choice but to find the answer. This is why Engels called for a scientific socialism rather than a utopian socialism. Marxism is distinctly concerned with the scientific tradition.

[omginternets]

Sure, I'm comfortable with that.

However it's a disingenuous to claim that Marxist political philosophy doesn't imply extreme centralization in practice. You're substituting the Marxist political projects of today (and yesteryear) with a hypothetical as-of-yet-unobtainable Marxism of the future.

I'd be a Marxist if all its problems suddenly disappeared and we were left only with the upsides. Who wouldn't?

[halsom]

The core critique Marxists make have of liberal politics is that liberalism is not democratic enough. Specifically, Marxists argue for democracy in the workplace whereas liberals are comfortable centralizing power over the means of production to a select few capitalists.

Marxists are for organizing society to serve the needs of the working class which reproduces society.

Marxists are progressive as they don’t deny the progress of history, which moves in one direction and cannot be turned back. Marxists understand capitalism as a necessary stage in the development of society but one that can only be temporary.

[omginternets]

Yes ... and?